Separate the debugger from the rest of the “suite”, and you’ve got a very
good start.
A modern GUI with repositionable windows (for remote debugging, I understand
the requirements of doing a GUI for local debugging would be onerous) would
be a good second step.
If I could do remote debugging of Win2K over Ethernet, instead of a slow
serial connection, or an expensive 1394 connection that is only supported on
XP, I might be very inclined to use SoftICE again. I would be happy to
dedicate a card in both boxes for it, as I would have to do that with 1394,
anyway, and I can get NICs for small $, 1394 is big $$$.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:35 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: WinDbg Vs SoftIce
Hey, if you guys tell us what you need, I’ll make a pass at lowering that
80%. 
Alberto.
=======================
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Jackson [mailto:xxxxx@nmwco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:19 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: WinDbg Vs SoftIce
Mark:
I don’t think windbg is a “direct” revenue interest either and I don’t blame
M$ for adding a stack to Win’95 which wasn’t a direct revenue interest. An
OS without network support is very limited. What I blame M$ for is not
having a quality windbg for all those years.
It is great that windbg (which means us developers) is getting the attention
it deserves finally. I just think that if windbg gives us 80%-90% of what
SoftIce does at $0, then we won’t even pay $50 bucks for a “better” product.
If we don’t pay enough for the continued development of SoftIce it won’t
last in the market place. I’m not even saying that it should, it’s just the
nature of the beast. All I really wanted to say was, I’m glad SoftIce has
been there.
Michael S. Jackson
xxxxx@netmotionwireless.com
www.netmotionwireless.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Roddy [mailto:xxxxx@hollistech.com]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:44 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: WinDbg Vs SoftIce
At the risk of wrecking my reputation by NOT slamming microsoft, I really do
not think that windbag represents a revenue interest to microsoft, nor do I
think they have any strategy to put softice/numega/compuwhatever out of
business. Now it just may happen that softice can’t survive a good windbag,
certainly numega will have to figure out some way to justify the additional
cost.
What I think happened is two things: 1) they actually listened to all of the
griping from us sniveling whiny developers, 2) windbag started to get used
‘in house’ as new folks moved into NT development and didn’t have the
cultural bias towards (gak) kdb.
For whatever reason I really LIKE getting !NEW !IMPROVED !WINDBAGs just
about every other month, with each new release a little bit better than the
last one.
Mark Roddy
Windows 2000/NT Consultant
Hollis Technology Solutions
xxxxx@hollistech.com
603 321 1032
www.hollistech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Michael Jackson
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:25 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: WinDbg Vs SoftIce
$0 vs. $700 This math doesn’t reflect my perception of reality.
All this time WinDbg wasn’t being supported. (I wouldn’t call it
supported.)
And SoftIce was trying to make a living out of satisfying customers by
building a debugger for a closed operating system. You think your job is
tuff, try doing what SoftIce does. They obviously aren’t getting
help from
M$.
I’ve always been surprised that there was any niche for SoftIce, I’d think
that M$ would take care of developers better than anyone else could. Back
with windows 3.1 SoftIce handled the thunking issues better than
M$ for many
years. Now Developer Studio is much better.
I’d be the first one to point out that the U.I. on SoftIce terrible. I
don’t mind that it’s character based. It’s just cumbersome.
I worked for WRQ which made money selling a TCP/IP stack for DOS and Win
3.x, but when M$ started providing a decent stack with Win’95 at $0, ours
wasn’t long for this world. Now that WinDbg is getting attention
I can see
the writing on the wall. After SoftIce is gone how much attention will
WinDbg get?
$0 vs. $700??? I don’t begrudge a single dollar I’ve sent to Numega.
Michael S. Jackson
xxxxx@netmotionwireless.com
www.netmotionwireless.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary G. Little [mailto:xxxxx@inland.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 4:25 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: WinDbg Vs SoftIce
My vote is for WinDbg, version 2.0.0023.
WinDbg costs $0, and is available via download. SoftIce costs $700+.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Girish
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 5:38 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WinDbg Vs SoftIce
Hello,
For NT driver debugging which debugger is better, WinDbg or SoftIce?
Thanks,
Giri
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