Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for the WDK and Driver development. All the MSDN newsgroups that some of you provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken their place. I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses that haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
How very… redundant.
Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
Peter
OSR
I disagree. Different people hang out on the different areas, some folks prefer a MSFT hosted site b/c it makes them feel more supported. There are different history retention, search, and admin settings between the two. The MSDN forums + private lists works for a lot of other technologies, it can work with driver developers too
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
How very… redundant.
Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
Peter
OSR
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Just out of curiosity, what is that Owner means under your post there ?
I guess you are the maintainer !
It’s caught my eyes, nothing major…
-pro
On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Doron Holan wrote:
I disagree. Different people hang out on the different areas, some folks prefer a MSFT hosted site b/c it makes them feel more supported. There are different history retention, search, and admin settings between the two. The MSDN forums + private lists works for a lot of other technologies, it can work with driver developers too
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDNHow very… redundant.
Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
Peter
OSR
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Oops, never mind. Anyone from MSFT seems to have that tag - Owner !!
-pro
On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Doron Holan wrote:
I disagree. Different people hang out on the different areas, some folks prefer a MSFT hosted site b/c it makes them feel more supported. There are different history retention, search, and admin settings between the two. The MSDN forums + private lists works for a lot of other technologies, it can work with driver developers too
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDNHow very… redundant.
Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
Peter
OSR
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
No, not all MSFT employees are owners (basically admin priv’s, not something I aspire to on a regular day, trust me 
), the group that sets up the forum can designate owners (who can be outside of MSFT)
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Prokash Sinha
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:10 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
Oops, never mind. Anyone from MSFT seems to have that tag - Owner !!
-pro
On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Doron Holan wrote:
I disagree. Different people hang out on the different areas, some folks prefer a MSFT hosted site b/c it makes them feel more supported. There are different history retention, search, and admin settings between the two. The MSDN forums + private lists works for a lot of other technologies, it can work with driver developers too
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDNHow very… redundant.
Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
Peter
OSR
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
yes, it was bit atypical of you !! But now I got it clear…
-pro
On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:13 PM, Doron Holan wrote:
No, not all MSFT employees are owners (basically admin priv’s, not something I aspire to on a regular day, trust me
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Prokash Sinha
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:10 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDNOops, never mind. Anyone from MSFT seems to have that tag - Owner !!
-pro
On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Doron Holan wrote:> I disagree. Different people hang out on the different areas, some folks prefer a MSFT hosted site b/c it makes them feel more supported. There are different history retention, search, and admin settings between the two. The MSDN forums + private lists works for a lot of other technologies, it can work with driver developers too
>
> d
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:25 PM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
>
> How very… redundant.
>
> Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner? resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus
the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and
spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner?
resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
They are just different…
In terms of general quality, “all the MSDN newsgroups” that Jennifer mentioned are(or were) a WAY below OSR lists. Some people may prefer them because they allow some “possibilities” that would never ever get tolerated here (insults, hate speeches, etc).Technical level of most posters is significantly below that of OSR regulars, and they generally tend to take everything that comes from MSFT for granted…
Anton Bassov
With newsgroups, I can configure it so that once I read a posting, I no
longer see it when I return to the newsgroup (ie, it gets marked as
“read”).
In a brief look at these forums, I don’t see how I can accomplish this
most basic and necessary task. Surely there is a way to do this, can
someone please explain it to me?
Thanks,
ScottR
P.S. Sorry, I shouldn’t have called you Shirley.
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@microsoft.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:02 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for the
WDK and Driver development. All the MSDN newsgroups that some of you
provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken their
place. I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses that
haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windevgeneral,win
devui,windevavg,windevsearch,windevsensorandtouch,windevnetworking,winde
vdiagnostics,windevother
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I think you can set up a ‘nntp bridge’ that will feed the forums into
a newsreader.
I personally am holding out for the WDK twitterface app for phone7win.
Mark Roddy
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Robins, Scott wrote:
> With newsgroups, I can configure it so that once I read a posting, I no
> longer see it when I return to the newsgroup (ie, it gets marked as
> “read”).
>
> In a brief look at these forums, I don’t see how I can accomplish this
> most basic and necessary task. ?Surely there is a way to do this, can
> someone please explain it to me?
>
> Thanks,
> ScottR
>
> P.S. Sorry, I shouldn’t have called you Shirley.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@microsoft.com
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:02 PM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
>
> Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for the
> WDK and Driver development. ?All the MSDN newsgroups that some of you
> provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken their
> place. ?I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses that
> haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
>
> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windevgeneral,win
> devui,windevavg,windevsearch,windevsensorandtouch,windevnetworking,winde
> vdiagnostics,windevother
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
I keep looking for a working plug-in for Outlook, the NNTP bridge is
flakey and does not work with any of the tools for news reading in
Outlook. There is a plug-in that claims to read forums call NewsHound
but I have found it to be flakey and impossible to get new forums such
as the WDK forum loaded into it.
Right now I will probably monitor the forums every few weeks. Because I
hate polling a website.
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
“Mark Roddy” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev:
> I think you can set up a ‘nntp bridge’ that will feed the forums into
> a newsreader.
>
> I personally am holding out for the WDK twitterface app for phone7win.
>
> Mark Roddy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Robins, Scott wrote:
> > With newsgroups, I can configure it so that once I read a posting, I no
> > longer see it when I return to the newsgroup (ie, it gets marked as
> > “read”).
> >
> > In a brief look at these forums, I don’t see how I can accomplish this
> > most basic and necessary task. Surely there is a way to do this, can
> > someone please explain it to me?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > ScottR
> >
> > P.S. Sorry, I shouldn’t have called you Shirley.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> > xxxxx@microsoft.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 7:02 PM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
> >
> > Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for the
> > WDK and Driver development. All the MSDN newsgroups that some of you
> > provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken their
> > place. I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses that
> > haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
> >
> > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windevgeneral,win
> > devui,windevavg,windevsearch,windevsensorandtouch,windevnetworking,winde
> > vdiagnostics,windevother
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
> >
> > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> > http://www.osr.com/seminars
> >
> > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> >
> > —
> > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
> >
> > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> > http://www.osr.com/seminars
> >
> > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> >
Huh? NTDEV infinitely retains content and offers customized full-text search (though, the only search that REALLY matters is Google). The MSDN forums do something different?
Admin settings: OK… with so few admin actions I can’t imagine that matters to anyone.
“Other technologies” have MUCH larger communities (by one or two factors of magnitude)… of users AND of experts.
Then again, “other technologies” have an MVP program. Like PowerPoint. Apparently driver development isn’t important enough to need an MVP program anymore. Just a list on MSDN.
Peter
OSR
On 11/30/2010 1:01 AM, xxxxx@microsoft.com wrote:
Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for
the WDK and Driver development. All the MSDN newsgroups that some of
you provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken
their place. I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses
that haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
Fine, as long as I can access them via an NNTP reader.
Please give me a pointer to a how-to for setup. Thanks!
>
Then again, “other technologies” have an MVP program. Like PowerPoint. Apparently driver development isn’t important enough to need an MVP program anymore. Just a list on MSDN.
IMHO it should be other way around. Reasons? The cost associated with failure in the kernel mode is at least couple order of magnitude higher than App failure. And I/O is perhaps the key too all experiences of computing. Two together should be enough to justify reinstating the program… But that just me.
-pro
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I have to agree killing off the MVP program for Driver and Kernel
Development is one of the most foolhardy things that Microsoft has done.
It certainly does not encourage efforts to help new members of the
community, and it cuts off to all the individual MVP’s access to the
kernel source one of the major references for answering questions on
this group.
There are rumors that the new WDK will be radically different in build
procedures. Here again the MVP’s typically got some early access and in
long ago past could give FEEDBACK, but this conduit for data is now cut
off. I predict an interesting time in driver community and a decrease
in driver quality and reliability in the future.
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
“Prokash Sinha” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev:
> >
> > Then again, “other technologies” have an MVP program. Like PowerPoint. Apparently driver development isn’t important enough to need an MVP program anymore. Just a list on MSDN.
> >
> IMHO it should be other way around. Reasons? The cost associated with failure in the kernel mode is at least couple order of magnitude higher than App failure. And I/O is perhaps the key too all experiences of computing. Two together should be enough to justify reinstating the program… But that just me.
>
> -pro
>
> >
> > —
> > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
> >
> > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> > http://www.osr.com/seminars
> >
> > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> There are rumors that the new WDK will be radically different in build
procedures. Here again the MVP’s typically got some early access and in long
ago past could give FEEDBACK, but this conduit for data is now cut off. I
predict an interesting time in driver community and a decrease in driver
quality and reliability in the future.
You mean feedback on things like the decision to only publish new versions
of windbg in the WDK? No doubt meetings where held, procedures followed
and whitepapers (that I didn’t read) published on why this was a great
idea. Still not smart. MSFT isn’t really in a position to get all
insular and ivory tower.
t.
Hagen Patzke wrote:
On 11/30/2010 1:01 AM, xxxxx@microsoft.com wrote:
> Just wanted to let you all know that there is now an MSDN Forum for
> the WDK and Driver development. All the MSDN newsgroups that some of
> you provided answers for have been retired - the forums have taken
> their place. I hope you guys will share your wisdom with the masses
> that haven’t discovered this (OSR Online) resource yet.
Fine, as long as I can access them via an NNTP reader.
Please give me a pointer to a how-to for setup. Thanks!
The so-called “Community Forums NNTP Bridge” is working for me with
Agent… I still don’t like it, and it does uncomfortable things to the
formatting, but it does work.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Information on setting up the NNTP Bridge:
What is the “Use NNTP Bridge” option in My Settings?
The NNTP Bridge Client application allows a user to configure their NNTP Reader to read and post to the forums. Users can install the client bridge at the Online Forums Connection. To use the bridge users must first select “Use NNTP Bridge” in the My Settings page. Note: at this time, there are no plans to localize the support documentation for the tool but the tool should work any locale forum. Users can visit the Online Forums Connection for more information, bug status and to report issues or suggestions.
The Online Forums Connection can be found at:
https://connect.microsoft.com/site/sitehome.aspx?SiteID=927
I have not used this so I cannot vouch for how well it works.
Also, if you go to the forum website, and sign in, you can filter to see only the unread items.
With exceptions, Anton is correct. I did find quite good help on more rarefied topics such as Windows Filtering Platform drivers in that particular MSDN forum. Mr. Ca(???) (sheesh David I forgot how to spell your name!?!?) provided assistance here as well, but the MSDN folk were very helpful.
It’s another resource to be used, for either kernel or user mode issues when your task at h and forces you down such paths as C#, Access, or SQL
Gary Little
----- Original Message -----
From: “soviet bloke”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 3:56:04 AM
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK Forum on MSDN
> Another forum on driver development serves no purpose in my opinion other than to de-focus
> the community, make it less clear to users where questions can be asked/answered, and
> spread the knowledgeable developer resources (both MSFT?s and those in the community) thinner?
> resulting in poorer overall answers to people’s questions.
They are just different…
In terms of general quality, “all the MSDN newsgroups” that Jennifer mentioned are(or were) a WAY below OSR lists. Some people may prefer them because they allow some “possibilities” that would never ever get tolerated here (insults, hate speeches, etc).Technical level of most posters is significantly below that of OSR regulars, and they generally tend to take everything that comes from MSFT for granted…
Anton Bassov
—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
OSR forums/lists are great and unique. But Microsoft is Microsoft. We should not critisize them for having their own forum for the stuff they own.
And will it harm this list if some amount of “entry level” questions go to the MSDN forums?
Regards,
–pa