Let me first say that I highly respect Mihal’s opinions ! He’s usually right
on target. I want to put out a few points:
Secondary VGA monitor support: it should work fine on OSs that support it.
Better than your old mono monitor. Also, some video vendors are coming out
with chips that hog the b000 memory range and the 3bx i/o range, which
effectively precludes the use of a mono monitor.
Stability: goes to prove that taking extreme liberties with the system
doesn’t have much to do with the stability of the driver. Few people out
there, even the hardest core video or audio driver writers, fiddle with the
OS or with the machine as deep as we do, yet we’re not known for wantonly
crashing systems left and right. Do it right, and it’ll be stable, whether
or not we tow the party line !
GUI: it used to be a canon in debugging that a real debugger shouldn’t use
debugee services. If I have a system debugger, a kernel debugger, it should,
at least in bluesky theory, not need the system or the kernel to work !
What’s the use of a debugger that won’t work after the OS quits ? The whole
point of kernel debugging is, when the debugger is there, it should run the
kernel and not need it for anything. To a debugger, the OS should look like
an application.
Currency: Knowing how our Microsoft friends do things, it is not hard to
realize that we often have to run pretty fast to catch them. As of today, I
depend on having a Microsoft release in my hands before I can fit my
software to it - and I get it not one minute sooner than any of you. So,
here, I’m at the same disadvantage vis-a-vis Windbg as many other
independent software vendors are in regard to their Microsoft counterparts.
More specifically, we have shipped pre-beta versions of our forthcoming
DriverStudio 2.6 to selected people, and we will be putting out a beta soon:
this version will fully support Windows XP and VC7 symbols, up to the normal
battery of bugs of course.
Driver Toolkits: if you believe in C++, there’s no comparison between DW or
DNW and a purely C based solution. Plus, using the toolkits isolates you
from the wild proliferation of APIs that keep popping up like mushrooms.
Sticking to a C++ framework gives you a lot more safety and leads to a lot
more stability and much faster, that is, of course, if you use the language
the way it asks to be used. Object orientation is great for stability and it
can be effectively tweaked in those few cases where CPU performance is
paramount. But then, if one’s into C and not into C++, there’s little to be
gained from a product like DriverWorks or DriverNetworks ! Although this
brings back the old argument, why not do it in machine code, the way we used
to do Win31 and Win9x drivers a few years ago ?
Workbench: it’s just an app. It provides a user interface into BoundsChecker
and into TrueTime. Today it also gives an easy access into the remote
facilities, although I also like to use the Namespace Extension. Try it !
Although it’s still infant, we’re going to beef it up.
Remote: it’s great for some uses. If you have for example a farm of target
machines and one or two developers or testers debugging them, the remote
operation is ideal. You only pay for hosts, not for targets, so, you only
pay for those two seats and you can debug as many targets as you will. It’s
also useful when you have that machine running way out there in Seattle and
your man-on-the-spot calls your office in New Hampshire to tell you the
machine has just crashed during WHQL stress testing: if nothing else, it may
save you a plane ticket or two. Stay tuned, we’re going to increase the
range of networking choices.
Hope this helps ! If not, don’t flame me to hard. 
Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michal Vodicka [mailto:xxxxx@veridicom.cz.nospam]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:26 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: NuMega Driver Studio…
Gary,
you have never used DS, right? Your only real point is that it is expensive
(more than you think which is correct and for some people it is the most
important point. Well, but I think the question was about technical value.
DS is a bundle of several products of different quality. Some notes from DS
user who is concerned mainly to SoftICE:
SoftICE (debugger) advantages:
- one machine debugging. It is invaluable, you have kernel debugger always
prepared to examine system state, code etc. It traps driver assertion
failures, application errors and page faults so you can immediately examine
the problem. For me this is the most important reason why I use it.
- unified interface for both NT and w9x. If you’re a poor developer who have
to support w9x and all NT version, it really helps.
- secondary monitor support. Debugger can be displayed all the time on
secondary mono or VGA monitor (I haven’t tried the second, it should work
for w2k and above). You can see debug messages from drivers and apps in the
real time and also info about un/loading modules. The second most important
reason why I use it. It can serve for many purposes, for example I debug my
favorite editor macros this way.
- stability. However, windbg was really improved and maybe it is comparable
now.
- effective user interface. No GUI. For me, it is an advantage although I
would agree windbg GUI was also improved and is usable.
- probably more; I can’t compare for example remote debugging because don’t
use it.
Disadvantages:
- sometimes you have to wait for the version compatible with the latest OS
version as Gary mentioned. Currently, ms changed OS (XP) symbol format and
we’re still waiting for SI patch which would support it.
BoundsChecker:
- similar as its user mode counterpart it logs important events and tracks
memory and resources. It already helped me in some situations and for
example memory leak problem is easy to solve with it. However, it should be
more configurable and mainly without rebooting.
TrueTime and TrueCoverage:
- I believe they can help but haven’t time and need to try them yet
Some driver toolkits and libraries:
- I don’t use them, no reason. I’m not sure if Gary’s point about DDK
necessity is correct. For w9x VToolsD makes it unnecessary and maybe also
DriverWorks for NT. They may be important if you plan to use C++.
DriverWorkbench:
- never mind. Maybe somebody who likes mouse and Dr.Watson would know some
advantages.
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
Veridicom
(RKK - Skytale)
[WWW: http://www.veridicom.com , http://www.skytale.com]
From: Gary Little[SMTP:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Reply To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:03 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: NuMega Driver Studio…
Expensive … $900 plus and you still need the DDK, VC++ 6.0, an MSDN
subscription, and you will find that symbols do not always track with
every
build of Windows that is released.
I use the DDK, WinDbg, and most importantly this list. Even with Driver
Studio you will still use the DDK, WinDbg, and most importantly this list.
If you fore see driver development in your near future, you MUST see about
taking a seminar.
www.azius.com
www.osr.com
www.oneysoft.com
These are listed in no particular order. All of them are good.
Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Brantley, Garth [mailto:xxxxx@dejarnette.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:41 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] NuMega Driver Studio…
Hi,
Since joining this list a few days ago, Ive seen several references to
Driver Studio. Do a lot of people use this product for developing
drivers?
What is the consensus as to how much value Driver Studio has over working
from scratch with the DDK?
-Garth
Garth Brantley, Development Engineer
DeJarnette Research Systems, Inc
(410) 583-0680 x412
(410) 583-0696 fax
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