Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

NTDEV
61

You’re a moron.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:09 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.

As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this, indeed, looks pretty
much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the end of the day, VAT
gets received by the government of the country where the PC was sold, but,
in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT, no matter where the PC
in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as some kind of “world
government” that can charge VAT on worldwide basis.???

Anton Bassov

NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
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62

Oliver,

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context of software projects, the term “tax” > is often used to describe concessions you have to make in order to be able to develop
software in a certain way.

Please read this discussion carefully - what we are speaking about here is not software projects but pre-installed OEM version of Vista that is imposed on anyone who buys a new PC, regardless of his/her wishes, rather than being offered as a separate product (as it is). It is understandable that it does not come for free. At this point it turns really into a value-added tax in the literal meaning of this word for anyone who has no interest in using it - people are forced to purchase something that they don’t want to buy.
Does not really look like a free market, does it???

Anton Bassov

63

> You’re a moron.

Dan, thank you so much for expressing your highly valuable opinion - I believe everyone here is extremely interested in it. Have you got any other opinions to voice? Please keep us posted…

Anton Bassov

64

I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn any discussion into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save the world, followed by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to take all of his money.

I’m quite impressed by it actually :slight_smile:

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

Anton,

> I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.

As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this, indeed, looks
pretty much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the end of the
day, VAT gets received by the government of the country where the PC was
sold, but, in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT, no matter
where the PC in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as some kind
of “world government” that can charge VAT on worldwide basis.???

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context of software projects, the term “tax” is often used to describe concessions you have to make in order to be able to develop software in a certain way. Usability concessions would be a “tax” as well …

In the current context, Vista would be a “tax” in this very sense, because every user would expect your “Windows product” to be compatible with Vista - and certain aspects of Vista make it quite different, depending on the level at which your software runs :wink:

// Oliver

PS: … still wondering how we got from the well-known and loved/hated C/C++ debate to Vista-bashing debate :smiley:

–
DDKWizard and DDKBUILD: http:

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

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65

> I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn any discussion

into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save the world,

Actually, on this particular occasion I did not make any use of it. When it comes to Vista-bashing, credit lies with Mark - please read this thread carefully, and you will see that this topic was raised by Mark even before I joined it, and re-introduced by him again well before I switched into a rant mode. Concerning Linux, I did not speak about it that much - I just briefly mentioned the facts that it is absolutely free and MAY BE technically superior to Windows, depending on particular distro (IMHO, this statement holds true for Fedora and SUSE and false for Ubuntu). Therefore, you can accuse me of absolutely everything, apart from hijacking the thread…

followed by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to take all of his money.

OK, this issue is 100% of my introduction, I admit… I’m sorry…

Anton Bassov

66

I just want to know how Atlanta came back from a 2-0 blowout to tie the
Celtics.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Peter Wieland <
xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com> wrote:

I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn any
discussion into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save the
world, followed by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to take all
of his money.

I’m quite impressed by it actually :slight_smile:

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

Anton,

> > I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.
>
> As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this, indeed, looks
> pretty much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the end of the
> day, VAT gets received by the government of the country where the PC was
> sold, but, in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT, no matter
> where the PC in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as some kind
> of “world government” that can charge VAT on worldwide basis.???

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context
of software projects, the term “tax” is often used to describe concessions
you have to make in order to be able to develop software in a certain way.
Usability concessions would be a “tax” as well …

In the current context, Vista would be a “tax” in this very sense, because
every user would expect your “Windows product” to be compatible with Vista -
and certain aspects of Vista make it quite different, depending on the level
at which your software runs :wink:

// Oliver

PS: … still wondering how we got from the well-known and loved/hated
C/C++ debate to Vista-bashing debate :smiley:

–
DDKWizard and DDKBUILD: http:
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

–
Mark Roddy</http:>

67

Theory 1: NBA conspiracy to maximize TV licensing revenues.

Theory 2: The scoreboard runs on embedded


Truth 1: I miss Red and his cigar.

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:29 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

I just want to know how Atlanta came back from a 2-0 blowout to tie the
Celtics.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Peter Wieland
wrote:

I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn any discussion
into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save the world, followed
by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to take all of his money.

I’m quite impressed by it actually :slight_smile:

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List

Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

Anton,

> > I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.
>
> As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this, indeed, looks
> pretty much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the end of the
> day, VAT gets received by the government of the country where the PC was
> sold, but, in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT, no matter
> where the PC in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as some kind
> of “world government” that can charge VAT on worldwide basis.???

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context
of software projects, the term “tax” is often used to describe concessions
you have to make in order to be able to develop software in a certain way.
Usability concessions would be a “tax” as well …

In the current context, Vista would be a “tax” in this very sense, because
every user would expect your “Windows product” to be compatible with Vista -
and certain aspects of Vista make it quite different, depending on the level
at which your software runs :wink:

// Oliver

PS: … still wondering how we got from the well-known and loved/hated C/C++
debate to Vista-bashing debate :smiley:

–
DDKWizard and DDKBUILD: http:http:</http:> >

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

–
Mark Roddy — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM,
debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To
unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</http:>

68

Theory 3: Bellicheck is taping falcons practices, instead of hawks
practices, thereby totally confusing the celtics.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of David R. Cattley
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:34 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver
project.

Theory 1: NBA conspiracy to maximize TV licensing revenues.

Theory 2: The scoreboard runs on embedded


Truth 1: I miss Red and his cigar.

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:29 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver
project.

I just want to know how Atlanta came back from a 2-0 blowout to
tie the Celtics.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Peter Wieland
wrote:

I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn
any discussion into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save
the world, followed by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to
take all of his money.

I’m quite impressed by it actually :slight_smile:

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List

Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver
project.

Anton,

> > I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.
>
> As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this,
indeed, looks
> pretty much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the
end of the
> day, VAT gets received by the government of the country where
the PC was
> sold, but, in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT,
no matter
> where the PC in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as
some kind
> of “world government” that can charge VAT on worldwide
basis.???

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in
the context of software projects, the term “tax” is often used to
describe concessions you have to make in order to be able to develop
software in a certain way. Usability concessions would be a “tax” as
well …

In the current context, Vista would be a “tax” in this very
sense, because every user would expect your “Windows product” to be
compatible with Vista - and certain aspects of Vista make it quite
different, depending on the level at which your software runs :wink:

// Oliver

PS: … still wondering how we got from the well-known and
loved/hated C/C++ debate to Vista-bashing debate :smiley:

–
DDKWizard and DDKBUILD: http:http:</http:> >

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars
visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars
visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

–
Mark Roddy — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of
WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server
section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars
visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</http:>

69

MessageMaybe Kevin Garnett is dating Jessica Simpson. Did anyone scan the
crowd for a woman in a pink Celtics shirt?

-scott

–
Scott Noone
Software Engineer
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osronline.com

“Robins, Scott” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
Theory 3: Bellicheck is taping falcons practices, instead of hawks
practices, thereby totally confusing the celtics.
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of David R. Cattley
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:34 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

Theory 1: NBA conspiracy to maximize TV licensing revenues.
Theory 2: The scoreboard runs on embedded

Truth 1: I miss Red and his cigar.

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:29 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

I just want to know how Atlanta came back from a 2-0 blowout to tie the
Celtics.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Peter Wieland
wrote:
I think we got here thanks to Anton’s amazing ability to turn any discussion
into an objective discussion of Linux’s ability to save the world, followed
by a review of the global Microsoft conspiracy to take all of his money.

I’m quite impressed by it actually :slight_smile:

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

Anton,

> > I consider the new preinstalled OS to only be a tax.
>
> As long as you have no interest in it whatsoever, this, indeed, looks
> pretty much like VAT. The “only” difference is that , in the end of the
> day, VAT gets received by the government of the country where the PC was
> sold, but, in this particular case, it gets received by MSFT, no matter
> where the PC in question got sold. Do you consider MSFT as some kind
> of “world government” that can charge VAT on worldwide basis.???

I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context
of software projects, the term “tax” is often used to describe concessions
you have to make in order to be able to develop software in a certain way.
Usability concessions would be a “tax” as well …

In the current context, Vista would be a “tax” in this very sense, because
every user would expect your “Windows product” to be compatible with Vista -
and certain aspects of Vista make it quite different, depending on the level
at which your software runs :wink:

// Oliver

PS: … still wondering how we got from the well-known and loved/hated C/C++
debate to Vista-bashing debate :smiley:

–
DDKWizard and DDKBUILD: http:

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

–
Mark Roddy — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM,
debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To
unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</http:>

70

So is the BIOS on your pre-built machine also a “tax”? There are
competing ones, you know. 1394 ports? I don’t need 'em (at home).

If it weren’t Microsoft we were talking about, no one would make this
kind of statement.

Companies sell PCs with the OS (in this case Windows) preinstalled
because that’s what the *vast* majority of their customers want. You can
always build your computer a la carte if you want to pick and choose parts.

xxxxx@hotmail.com wrote:

Oliver,

> I think you’re misunderstanding “tax”. In figurative speech in the context of software projects, the term “tax”> is often used to describe concessions you have to make in order to be able to develop
> software in a certain way.

Please read this discussion carefully - what we are speaking about here is not software projects but pre-installed OEM version of Vista that is imposed on anyone who buys a new PC, regardless of his/her wishes, rather than being offered as a separate product (as it is). It is understandable that it does not come for free. At this point it turns really into a value-added tax in the literal meaning of this word for anyone who has no interest in using it - people are forced to purchase something that they don’t want to buy.
Does not really look like a free market, does it???

Anton Bassov

–
Ray
(If you want to reply to me off list, please remove “spamblock.” from my
email address)

71

> So is the BIOS on your pre-built machine also a “tax”?

Actually, this is pretty spacious argument - although it may sound convincing, in actuality, it is not.
There is a difference between the embedded and installable software. The former is tightly bound to the hardware that needs firmware in order to be functional, so that it gets installed by the hardware manufacturer - it is impossible to make any use of the target hardware without it, because this is the only “entity” that has in-depth knowledge of underlying hardware. The latter is just an add-on feature that gets installed by the user. BIOS belongs to the former class of software, and OS and application software belong to the latter one…

1394 ports? I don’t need 'em (at home).

Again, the same story, but already at the level of hardware controllers - they can come either on board
(i.e. are just motherboard feature) or as add-on PCI cards (i.e. installable by user). Have you ever seen a OEM PC with 1394, USB, network, etc controller that comes as an add-on PCI card???

If it weren’t Microsoft we were talking about, no one would make this kind of statement.

Wrong!!! This statement can be made in respect of everything that is meant to be add-on feature but somehow gets presented as embedded one, be it hardware or software, especially if an interested party makes a deal with this or that government that legally obliges OEMs to provide add-on feature in question on all machines that they produce. Somehow it just happened that up to this point no one, apart from MSFT, tried to present add-on features as embedded ones, let alone requesting legal assistance in doing so…

Companies sell PCs with the OS (in this case Windows) preinstalled because that’s what the *vast* >majority of their customers want.

If this was the case, there would be just no point in legally forcing them to do so, don’t you think???

Anton Bassov

72

In what country is it illegal to sell a computer without an operating
system?

That’s what I thought. You’re still a moron.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:32 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

So is the BIOS on your pre-built machine also a “tax”?

Actually, this is pretty spacious argument - although it may sound
convincing, in actuality, it is not.
There is a difference between the embedded and installable software. The
former is tightly bound to the hardware that needs firmware in order to be
functional, so that it gets installed by the hardware manufacturer - it is
impossible to make any use of the target hardware without it, because this
is the only “entity” that has in-depth knowledge of underlying hardware. The
latter is just an add-on feature that gets installed by the user. BIOS
belongs to the former class of software, and OS and application software
belong to the latter one…

1394 ports? I don’t need 'em (at home).

Again, the same story, but already at the level of hardware controllers -
they can come either on board (i.e. are just motherboard feature) or as
add-on PCI cards (i.e. installable by user). Have you ever seen a OEM PC
with 1394, USB, network, etc controller that comes as an add-on PCI card???

If it weren’t Microsoft we were talking about, no one would make this kind
of statement.

Wrong!!! This statement can be made in respect of everything that is meant
to be add-on feature but somehow gets presented as embedded one, be it
hardware or software, especially if an interested party makes a deal with
this or that government that legally obliges OEMs to provide add-on feature
in question on all machines that they produce. Somehow it just happened that
up to this point no one, apart from MSFT, tried to present add-on features
as embedded ones, let alone requesting legal assistance in doing so…

Companies sell PCs with the OS (in this case Windows) preinstalled because
that’s what the *vast* >majority of their customers want.

If this was the case, there would be just no point in legally forcing them
to do so, don’t you think???

Anton Bassov

NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

73

It would be if some could have it made a law, but large OEMs have to install
an OS on all systems if they want to get the best pricing for Windows. Some
of this may have changed with the anti-trust settlements. I know most major
OEMs will leave the OS off for major customers who have volume licenses.

“Dan Kyler” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> In what country is it illegal to sell a computer without an operating
> system?
>
> That’s what I thought. You’re still a moron.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@hotmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:32 PM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.
>
>> So is the BIOS on your pre-built machine also a “tax”?
>
> Actually, this is pretty spacious argument - although it may sound
> convincing, in actuality, it is not.
> There is a difference between the embedded and installable software. The
> former is tightly bound to the hardware that needs firmware in order to be
> functional, so that it gets installed by the hardware manufacturer - it is
> impossible to make any use of the target hardware without it, because this
> is the only “entity” that has in-depth knowledge of underlying hardware.
> The
> latter is just an add-on feature that gets installed by the user. BIOS
> belongs to the former class of software, and OS and application software
> belong to the latter one…
>
>>1394 ports? I don’t need 'em (at home).
>
> Again, the same story, but already at the level of hardware controllers -
> they can come either on board (i.e. are just motherboard feature) or as
> add-on PCI cards (i.e. installable by user). Have you ever seen a OEM PC
> with 1394, USB, network, etc controller that comes as an add-on PCI
> card???
>
>> If it weren’t Microsoft we were talking about, no one would make this
>> kind
> of statement.
>
> Wrong!!! This statement can be made in respect of everything that is
> meant
> to be add-on feature but somehow gets presented as embedded one, be it
> hardware or software, especially if an interested party makes a deal with
> this or that government that legally obliges OEMs to provide add-on
> feature
> in question on all machines that they produce. Somehow it just happened
> that
> up to this point no one, apart from MSFT, tried to present add-on
> features
> as embedded ones, let alone requesting legal assistance in doing so…
>
>> Companies sell PCs with the OS (in this case Windows) preinstalled
>> because
> that’s what the vast >majority of their customers want.
>
> If this was the case, there would be just no point in legally forcing
> them
> to do so, don’t you think???
>
> Anton Bassov
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>

74

> In what country is it illegal to sell a computer without an operating system? That’s what I thought.

You’re still a moron.

I am afraid the term “moron” applies to you, rather than to anyone else - you are, indeed, a moron, and, apparently, poorly informed one. I will try to explain it to you, although I am not sure I will succeed - after all, it is not that easy to explain things to morons, and juding from the way you express yourself , you are just a classical example of the one. Therefore, let’s try to do it in a loop

while(1)

{

What we are speaking about is not selling computers but producing them. On his visit to China few months ago Mr. Gates made a deal with their government, according to terms of which every computer that leaves the factory gates anywhere in China is legally obliged to have pre-installed OS on it. Once the vast majority of machines sold in the Western world todat are produced in China, they are going to have pre-installed OS as a direct result of this deal.

if (unlikely(Dan_Kyler_understood) )break;

}

Anton Bassov

75

Guys, could you continue exchanging your compliments out of the list?
Thanks.

(be so kind, Anton, and don’t try to explain me who started it)

Best regards,

Michal Vodicka
UPEK, Inc.
[xxxxx@upek.com, http://www.upek.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:47 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Mixing C and C++ files in a driver project.

> In what country is it illegal to sell a computer without an
operating system? That’s what I thought.
> You’re still a moron.

I am afraid the term “moron” applies to you, rather than to
anyone else - you are, indeed, a moron, and, apparently,
poorly informed one. I will try to explain it to you,
although I am not sure I will succeed - after all, it is not
that easy to explain things to morons, and juding from the
way you express yourself , you are just a classical example
of the one. Therefore, let’s try to do it in a loop

while(1)

{

What we are speaking about is not selling computers but
producing them. On his visit to China few months ago Mr.
Gates made a deal with their government, according to terms
of which every computer that leaves the factory gates
anywhere in China is legally obliged to have pre-installed
OS on it. Once the vast majority of machines sold in the
Western world todat are produced in China, they are going to
have pre-installed OS as a direct result of this deal.

if (unlikely(Dan_Kyler_understood) )break;

}

Anton Bassov

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76

Michal,

Guys, could you continue exchanging your compliments out of the list?

In fact, this is the very first time (and DEFINITELY the last one) that I got involved into something like that on OSR list. I know I should not have made my previous post, but I just could not resist the temptation…

Anton Bassov

77

The distinction between a BIOS and and OS on a mass-market PC is pretty
much a figment of your imagination. Most laptops have specialized
drivers for some hardware, so the notion that the difference is
hardware-bound vs. "add on" is BS, practically speaking. It's a rare
machine these days that will work optimally out of the box with a
non-customized version of even Windows, much less Linux.

And people reflash the BIOS of various computers all the time, so that's
not even compelling. Heck, I've completely replaced the BIOS/OS on a
wireless router with an open-source version. Should I bitch that I had
to pay the "tax" of anything beyond a bootloader?

The vast majority of OEMs are in the business of selling you a fully
functional computer, not a do-it-yourself one. Selling machines with no
OS does not fit their business model. If you want to do it yourself,
that's a perfectly viable option, go ahead... But why stop with the OS?
Put the hardware together yourself too... it's not like it's any harder
than installing Linux.

xxxxx@hotmail.com wrote:

> Companies sell PCs with the OS (in this case Windows) preinstalled because that's what the *vast*>majority of their customers want.

If this was the case, there would be just no point in legally forcing them to do so, don't you think???

This hasn't been the case in several years. Generally speaking, OEMs are
free to sell PCs with alternate OS's installed and not pay an MS "tax".

Their customers largely don't want that (yet... and the OEMs don't
really want to support end users installing their own OS's either), but
they're free to do so.

And, in fact, they do. The EeePC is a perfect example. There'd be nearly
no point in using Linux on it to save cost, otherwise.

(Once again, I'm amused by the hijacking of this C vs. C++ thread).

Ray
(If you want to reply to me off list, please remove "spamblock." from my
email address)

78

xxxxx@hotmail.com wrote:

What we are speaking about is not selling computers but producing them. On his visit to China few months ago Mr. Gates made a deal with their government, according to terms of which every computer that leaves the factory gates anywhere in China is legally obliged to have pre-installed OS on it. Once the vast majority of machines sold in the Western world todat are produced in China, they are going to have pre-installed OS as a direct result of this deal.

There's no indication I can find that it is just Windows, but rather can
be any properly licensed OS, including a free OS if they want. So
where's the "Microsoft tax"? This is purely an anti-piracy measure. A
rather pointless one, if you ask me, but that's the stated purpose.

Ray
(If you want to reply to me off list, please remove "spamblock." from my
email address)

79

Ray,

It’s a rare machine these days that will work optimally out of the box with a non-customized version of >even Windows, much less Linux.

Sorry, but the above statement sounds really funny to anyone who tried more or less recent versions of Linux (although, judging from quite a few post in this NG, not so funny for those who tried to install RTM Vista on their newly-bought machines) …

.> Put the hardware together yourself too… it’s not like it’s any harder than installing Linux.

This one is even funnier. Try it yourself, and you will see that all you have to do is to insert installations disk into your drive. BTW, check the thread where the poster complains about being unable to get 64-bit driver for Windows, so that he asks someone to port Linux driver for a given device to it (the source is available right in plain vanilla kernel) - it looks like these days installing Linux is much easier than fonding right drivers for Windows…

Anton Bassov

80

> There’s no indication I can find that it is just Windows, but rather can be any properly

licensed OS, including a free OS if they want.

Please read your own words carefully - “properly licensed OS”…

… including a free OS if they want

Try any free OS, watch carefully the dialogs that are displayed during installation, and see if you ever come across something like EULA, any mentioning of licensing of any description (even free one) or anything even remotely related to this field…

This is purely an anti-piracy measure.

Well, they do have to find some more or less acceptable explanation, don’t you think???

Anton Bassov