An alternative to visual source safe version 6

NTDEV
1

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

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2

Well if you have the money and somebody to be the guru for it. Rational
Clearcase rocks. It is essentially a versioning file system that makes
having multiple development branches the normal mode of operation.

I suspect that this is another religious issue. Having used CVS, SCCS,
Clearcase and VSS, in my opinion Clearcase is in a different league.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando, Robert [mailto:xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently we use
source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers then add
there changes to before putting it back into source safe with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support
?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP, United
Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com To
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3

There is a “known” bug in VSS with large databases - they tend to get
corrupted. In my last company we used Starteam as a replacement. It has all
the functionality of VSS and more :- views, branching support etc. Go to
http://www.starbase.com/ to learn more…

G.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando, Robert [mailto:xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:00 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@appstream.co.il
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4

** Reply to message from “Fernando, Robert”
on Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:59:54 -0000

> what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?

Merant’s PVCS Version Manager.

Sincerely,

Chris Myers
Senior Project Engineer
Quatech, Inc.

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5

Well, it all depends on a number of things:

  1. How many developers you have ?
  2. Do you look for a parallel development ?
  3. Do you need remote access to the souirces ?
  4. Do you need smart merge capabilities ?

If answer to all the above is yes then I would recomment ClearCase by
Rational.
This tool is very powerfull but the power comes with a price, it is hard to
configurate and you have to know what you are doing. In addition it is
expensive too.
In my case we have more than 120 developers working with it and I’m telling
you that ClearCase is a life saver.

As an alternative you may consider WinCVS and others but they are
significantly less powerfull.
Hope this helps.
Stas.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando, Robert [mailto:xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:00 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

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6

I’ve used Clearcase before. It has a very unique way of looking at
configuration management. It also REQUIRES several full-time staff members
just to keep it running. It also creates its own file system that doesn’t
actually reside anywhere. It has a very steep learning curve. It is very,
very powerful, but unless you are doing development in a geographically
diverse environment with ill-defined areas of responsibilities for the
developers, it’s not worth the hassle.

Just my $0.02 worth based upon my experience.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Well if you have the money and somebody to be the guru for it. Rational
Clearcase rocks. It is essentially a versioning file system that makes
having multiple development branches the normal mode of operation.

I suspect that this is another religious issue. Having used CVS, SCCS,
Clearcase and VSS, in my opinion Clearcase is in a different league.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando, Robert [mailto:xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently we use
source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers then add
there changes to before putting it back into source safe with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support
?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP, United
Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com To
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7

You may want to take a look at our product line:
http://www.starbase.com
and in
http://www.starbase.com/products/starteam/
in particular.
Code and configuration management doesn’t get any better :slight_smile:

Regards,

Vladimir

-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory G. Dyess [mailto:xxxxx@pdq.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:22 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

I’ve used Clearcase before. It has a very unique way of looking at
configuration management. It also REQUIRES several full-time staff members
just to keep it running. It also creates its own file system that doesn’t
actually reside anywhere. It has a very steep learning curve. It is very,
very powerful, but unless you are doing development in a geographically
diverse environment with ill-defined areas of responsibilities for the
developers, it’s not worth the hassle.

Just my $0.02 worth based upon my experience.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Well if you have the money and somebody to be the guru for it. Rational
Clearcase rocks. It is essentially a versioning file system that makes
having multiple development branches the normal mode of operation.

I suspect that this is another religious issue. Having used CVS, SCCS,
Clearcase and VSS, in my opinion Clearcase is in a different league.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando, Robert [mailto:xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently we use
source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers then add
there changes to before putting it back into source safe with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support
?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP, United
Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com To
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8

One more that hasn’t been mentioned is Perforce.
www.perforce.com

I’m certainly not a fan of Rational (the people who make ClearCase) when it comes to documentation. It may be my conspirational
paranoia, but I think Rational has a revenue stream associated with training so they purposefully provide weak docs.

Perforce’s docs, on the other hand, are generally good, and in some cases outstanding.
Their cross platform abilities are what sell the product though. If you’re doing mixed NT and Unix developement, it’s a fantastic
product. They have clients for almost every platform you’ve ever heard of (including BeOS, for god’s sake). Servers for both NT and
Unix make it easier to wedge it into the IT organization.
Perforce has pretty good VC integration too, and a very nice Windows browser client.
It’s also fast over remote connections. If you’ve ever tried to use VSS over a dialup connection, you are in for a pleasant surprise
with Perforce.

The website has a 2 client trial version for download, so you can try it before you commit.

If I sound like a commercial for Perforce, it’s because it’s a strong product – nothing more, nothing less.

ERX

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back
into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@spinnakernet.com
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9

You might take a look at Perforce http://www.perforce.com . It is a very
powerful, stable and cross platform. It is also much more complex than VSS
with a steep learning curve and, in my opinion, requires a full time person
to manage it.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@youngendeavors.com
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10

I use VSS and my databse is well over 2 gig; no problems in 4 years.

However, Vss a load of crap; too bad it is the standard.

Try Perforce (www.perforce.com) This is the best version control
software, but it is very expensive (~700.00 per seat).

Jamey

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently we
use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers then
add there changes to before putting it back into source safe with a new
label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will
support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com To
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11

Use CVS – it’s completely free and requires practically no maintenance.
I’ve never had a database corruption problem with it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Young [mailto:xxxxx@youngendeavors.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:33 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

You might take a look at Perforce http://www.perforce.com . It is a very
powerful, stable and cross platform. It is also much more complex than VSS
with a steep learning curve and, in my opinion, requires a full time person
to manage it.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently we use
source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers then add
there changes to before putting it back into source safe with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support
?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP, United
Kingdom

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12

Yes. It does ot get any better than Perforce; if you can afford it :slight_smile:

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lee Steadle
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:51 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

One more that hasn’t been mentioned is Perforce.
www.perforce.com

I’m certainly not a fan of Rational (the people who make ClearCase) when
it comes to documentation. It may be my conspirational paranoia, but I
think Rational has a revenue stream associated with training so they
purposefully provide weak docs.

Perforce’s docs, on the other hand, are generally good, and in some
cases outstanding. Their cross platform abilities are what sell the
product though. If you’re doing mixed NT and Unix developement, it’s a
fantastic product. They have clients for almost every platform you’ve
ever heard of (including BeOS, for god’s sake). Servers for both NT and
Unix make it easier to wedge it into the IT organization. Perforce has
pretty good VC integration too, and a very nice Windows browser client.
It’s also fast over remote connections. If you’ve ever tried to use VSS
over a dialup connection, you are in for a pleasant surprise with
Perforce.

The website has a 2 client trial version for download, so you can try it
before you commit.

If I sound like a commercial for Perforce, it’s because it’s a strong
product – nothing more, nothing less.

ERX

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently
we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers
then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become

corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will
support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

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13

Although it’s traditionally used more in UNIX development projects, CVS is
worth looking at. Lots of big open-source projects use it, and it seems
to handle large projects well, because it’s just a bunch of old-style
rcs files with a more intelligent front-end, i.e. no database that could
wipe out the whole enchilada. Also, the most recent version of each file
is stored in full, and all prior revs are stored as diffs. That makes it
fast for access to the working revs, while letting it scale efficiently.

It has its drawbacks, of course - it has poor support for binary objects,
in that it has to keep entire copies of each revision in the repository.
Also, it doesn’t integrate with windows source control well. It can also
be tough to learn to use.

On the positive side, it’s pretty self-sufficient once developers are
clued in as to how to use it. It most certainly does not require a team
of admins. Also, there are GUI front-ends for those who don’t like using
the command line clients, and there are tons of add-ons, analysis scripts,
and other resources. Finally, it’s Free.

Another alternative is SourceForge - started out as a website (still is),
but VA Software productized it last year and is pushing it pretty
hard. No experience with it, other than that I’ve coded on
sourceforge.net projects before.

Rounding out the list is Bugzilla - the bug tracking system for
Mozilla.org. It has worked quite well for me in the past. It is written
in Perl and backs up to MySQL (preferred) or Oracle. It’s cross-platform
and entirely web-based. Mozilla just put it’s 100,000th bug in Buzailla,
so it scales pretty well so far.

I’ve used CVS + Bugzilla in combination on a number of projects in the
past, and it has always worked well for me. Both support about any
platform under the sun (important for the cross-platform nature of my
work), and they’re free and easy to set up once you get the hang of it.

More info:
http://www.cvshome.org
http://www.cvsgui.org
http://www.vasoftware.com/sf
http://sourceforge.net

HTH.

-sd

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Fernando, Robert wrote:

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

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14

CVS is great (I must disagree with Steve in that it is not that hard
to learn and use). However, the WinCVS implementation has some
minor bugs and (IMHO) a major drawback in security: it’s encryption
algorithm for storing users passwords (.cvspass) sucks. Of course,
you may always change the algorithm, since it is open source…

Miguel Monteiro
xxxxx@criticalsoftware.com

Critical Software, S.A. - http://www.criticalsoftware.com
111 North Market Street, 6th floor, San Jose, CA, USA, 95113
Tel: +1.408.9711231, Fax +1.408.9383929
R. Pedro Nunes, IPN, 3030-199 Coimbra, Portugal
Tel: +351.239.700945 - Fax: +351.239.700905

DISCLAIMER: This mail contents represent
my own personal opinions and do not, in any way,
represent the opinion or policy of Critical Software, S.A.

“Humour and love are God’s answers
to Human weaknesses” =:o)8

----- Original Message -----
From: “Steve Dispensa”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:15 PM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Although it’s traditionally used more in UNIX development projects, CVS
is
worth looking at. Lots of big open-source projects use it, and it seems
to handle large projects well, because it’s just a bunch of old-style
rcs files with a more intelligent front-end, i.e. no database that could
wipe out the whole enchilada. Also, the most recent version of each
file
is stored in full, and all prior revs are stored as diffs. That makes
it
fast for access to the working revs, while letting it scale efficiently.

It has its drawbacks, of course - it has poor support for binary
objects,
in that it has to keep entire copies of each revision in the repository.
Also, it doesn’t integrate with windows source control well. It can
also
be tough to learn to use.

On the positive side, it’s pretty self-sufficient once developers are
clued in as to how to use it. It most certainly does not require a team
of admins. Also, there are GUI front-ends for those who don’t like
using
the command line clients, and there are tons of add-ons, analysis
scripts,
and other resources. Finally, it’s Free.

Another alternative is SourceForge - started out as a website (still
is),
but VA Software productized it last year and is pushing it pretty
hard. No experience with it, other than that I’ve coded on
sourceforge.net projects before.

Rounding out the list is Bugzilla - the bug tracking system for
Mozilla.org. It has worked quite well for me in the past. It is
written
in Perl and backs up to MySQL (preferred) or Oracle. It’s
cross-platform
and entirely web-based. Mozilla just put it’s 100,000th bug in
Buzailla,
so it scales pretty well so far.

I’ve used CVS + Bugzilla in combination on a number of projects in the
past, and it has always worked well for me. Both support about any
platform under the sun (important for the cross-platform nature of my
work), and they’re free and easy to set up once you get the hang of it.

More info:
http://www.cvshome.org
http://www.cvsgui.org
http://www.vasoftware.com/sf
http://sourceforge.net

HTH.

-sd

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Fernando, Robert wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
> Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
> developers then add there changes to before putting it back into
source safe
> with a new label.
>
> We currently have problem that in the last year the database has
become
> corrupted at least 4 times.
> Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?
>
> thanks
> Robert Fernando
> Anite Telecoms Ltd
> 110 Fleet Road
> Fleet
> Hampshire GU51 4BL
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
> Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
> Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com
>
> Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
> Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
> United Kingdom
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@positivenetworks.net
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15

don’t forget about SSH integration - that’s all i use with WinCVS. Also,
ver 1.3 is in beta 6 and looks to be pretty stable.

-sd

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Miguel Monteiro wrote:

CVS is great (I must disagree with Steve in that it is not that hard
to learn and use). However, the WinCVS implementation has some
minor bugs and (IMHO) a major drawback in security: it’s encryption
algorithm for storing users passwords (.cvspass) sucks. Of course,
you may always change the algorithm, since it is open source…

Miguel Monteiro
xxxxx@criticalsoftware.com

Critical Software, S.A. - http://www.criticalsoftware.com
111 North Market Street, 6th floor, San Jose, CA, USA, 95113
Tel: +1.408.9711231, Fax +1.408.9383929
R. Pedro Nunes, IPN, 3030-199 Coimbra, Portugal
Tel: +351.239.700945 - Fax: +351.239.700905

DISCLAIMER: This mail contents represent
my own personal opinions and do not, in any way,
represent the opinion or policy of Critical Software, S.A.

“Humour and love are God’s answers
to Human weaknesses” =:o)8

----- Original Message -----
From: “Steve Dispensa”
> To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:15 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: An alternative to visual source safe version 6
>
>
> Although it’s traditionally used more in UNIX development projects, CVS
> is
> worth looking at. Lots of big open-source projects use it, and it seems
> to handle large projects well, because it’s just a bunch of old-style
> rcs files with a more intelligent front-end, i.e. no database that could
> wipe out the whole enchilada. Also, the most recent version of each
> file
> is stored in full, and all prior revs are stored as diffs. That makes
> it
> fast for access to the working revs, while letting it scale efficiently.
>
> It has its drawbacks, of course - it has poor support for binary
> objects,
> in that it has to keep entire copies of each revision in the repository.
> Also, it doesn’t integrate with windows source control well. It can
> also
> be tough to learn to use.
>
> On the positive side, it’s pretty self-sufficient once developers are
> clued in as to how to use it. It most certainly does not require a team
> of admins. Also, there are GUI front-ends for those who don’t like
> using
> the command line clients, and there are tons of add-ons, analysis
> scripts,
> and other resources. Finally, it’s Free.
>
> Another alternative is SourceForge - started out as a website (still
> is),
> but VA Software productized it last year and is pushing it pretty
> hard. No experience with it, other than that I’ve coded on
> sourceforge.net projects before.
>
> Rounding out the list is Bugzilla - the bug tracking system for
> Mozilla.org. It has worked quite well for me in the past. It is
> written
> in Perl and backs up to MySQL (preferred) or Oracle. It’s
> cross-platform
> and entirely web-based. Mozilla just put it’s 100,000th bug in
> Buzailla,
> so it scales pretty well so far.
>
> I’ve used CVS + Bugzilla in combination on a number of projects in the
> past, and it has always worked well for me. Both support about any
> platform under the sun (important for the cross-platform nature of my
> work), and they’re free and easy to set up once you get the hang of it.
>
> More info:
> http://www.cvshome.org
> http://www.cvsgui.org
> http://www.vasoftware.com/sf
> http://sourceforge.net
>
> HTH.
>
> -sd
>
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Fernando, Robert wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
> > Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
> > developers then add there changes to before putting it back into
> source safe
> > with a new label.
> >
> > We currently have problem that in the last year the database has
> become
> > corrupted at least 4 times.
> > Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?
> >
> > thanks
> > Robert Fernando
> > Anite Telecoms Ltd
> > 110 Fleet Road
> > Fleet
> > Hampshire GU51 4BL
> > United Kingdom
> > Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
> > Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
> > Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com
> >
> > Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
> > Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
> > United Kingdom
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@positivenetworks.net
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
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>
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16

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Steve Dispensa wrote:

It has its drawbacks, of course - it has poor support for binary objects,
in that it has to keep entire copies of each revision in the repository.
Also, it doesn’t integrate with windows source control well. It can also
be tough to learn to use.

There is some work being done on cvs integration with Visual Studio. The
project at http://www.geocities.com/kaczoroj/CvsIn/ immediately comes to
mind, but I think there are others too.

More info:
http://www.cvshome.org

For windows platforms, http://www.wincvs.org/ is useful too :slight_smile: I’ve been
using the win32 command line cvs tools for some time now in a project, and
have been very happy with it. Once set up correctly, it has required no
maintenance so far…

http://www.cvsgui.org
http://www.vasoftware.com/sf
http://sourceforge.net

Mark

Mark de Wit
University of Glasgow Computing Science Department
xxxxx@dcs.gla.ac.uk http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~dew
Office phone: +44-(0)141-339 8855 ext. 0914
ICQ # 7179380

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17

> We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become

corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

Splitting the VSS database on project-by-project basis can be a solution.

IIRC Microsoft uses VSS internally, though they had other source control called SLM in the past.

Max

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18

If one is concerned about speed over weak links - then SourceOffSite is MUCH better then Perforce, I would say that about 10 times.
Maybe Perforce is great, but for LANs.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From: “Jamey Kirby”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

> Yes. It does ot get any better than Perforce; if you can afford it :slight_smile:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lee Steadle
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:51 AM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6
>
>
> One more that hasn’t been mentioned is Perforce.
> www.perforce.com
>
>
>
> I’m certainly not a fan of Rational (the people who make ClearCase) when
> it comes to documentation. It may be my conspirational paranoia, but I
> think Rational has a revenue stream associated with training so they
> purposefully provide weak docs.
>
> Perforce’s docs, on the other hand, are generally good, and in some
> cases outstanding. Their cross platform abilities are what sell the
> product though. If you’re doing mixed NT and Unix developement, it’s a
> fantastic product. They have clients for almost every platform you’ve
> ever heard of (including BeOS, for god’s sake). Servers for both NT and
> Unix make it easier to wedge it into the IT organization. Perforce has
> pretty good VC integration too, and a very nice Windows browser client.
> It’s also fast over remote connections. If you’ve ever tried to use VSS
> over a dialup connection, you are in for a pleasant surprise with
> Perforce.
>
> The website has a 2 client trial version for download, so you can try it
> before you commit.
>
>
> If I sound like a commercial for Perforce, it’s because it’s a strong
> product – nothing more, nothing less.
>
>
>
> ERX
>
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:00 AM
> >To: NT Developers Interest List
> >Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ? Currently
> >we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which developers
> >then add there changes to before putting it back into source safe
> >with a new label.
> >
> >We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
>
> >corrupted at least 4 times. Is there a max size of dB that vs. will
> >support ?
> >
> >thanks
> >Robert Fernando
> >Anite Telecoms Ltd
> >110 Fleet Road
> >Fleet
> >Hampshire GU51 4BL
> >United Kingdom
> >Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
> >Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
> >Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com
> >
> >Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
> >Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
> >United Kingdom
> >
> >—
> >You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@spinnakernet.com To
> >unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>
>
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19

“Maxim S. Shatskih” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> IIRC Microsoft uses VSS internally, though they had other source control
called SLM in the past.
>

Could you imagine NT in VSS? The mind staggers.

Microsoft may use VSS for small projects. They use a custom solution for
source code management called “SD”.

Peter
OSR

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20

I would also remommend Perforce. We have used VSS for years and later
switched to Perforce because needed access to remote databases. Switching
from VSS may not be quite easy if you already have some bad habits which VSS
supports or at least doesn’t prohibit. It is hard and sometimes impossible
to use Perforce improper way which may be inconvenient on the beginning but
later you’d appreciate it. There are several documents on Perforce web site
which describe proper ways and reasoning behind; I would recommed to read it
before use and also try trial version.

Note it is originally UNIX software with all pros and cons. The command line
interface is very poweful whereas win32 client is only front-end to this
interface. There is also SCC DLL which may be used for integration with VC
and other IDEs. I haven’t tried it, yet, command line is great :slight_smile: Command
line utility also allowed us to integrate it with our build engine which.

We don’t have a full time person to manage it. Once properly installed, it
work with no problem (sure, with everyday backup). It may depend on database
size and number of programmers.

Best regards,

Michal Vodicka
STMicroelectronics Design and Application s.r.o.
[michal.vodicka@st.com, http:://www.st.com]

From: xxxxx@youngendeavors.com[SMTP:xxxxx@youngendeavors.com]
Reply To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 5:33 PM
To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Subject: [ntdev] RE: An alternative to visual source safe version 6

You might take a look at Perforce http://www.perforce.com . It is a very
powerful, stable and cross platform. It is also much more complex than VSS
with a steep learning curve and, in my opinion, requires a full time
person
to manage it.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Fernando, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:00 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] An alternative to visual source safe version 6

Hi all,

what would People recommend instead of visual source safe ?
Currently we use source safe to hold labeled builds of our code which
developers then add there changes to before putting it back into source
safe
with a new label.

We currently have problem that in the last year the database has become
corrupted at least 4 times.
Is there a max size of dB that vs. will support ?

thanks
Robert Fernando
Anite Telecoms Ltd
110 Fleet Road
Fleet
Hampshire GU51 4BL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1252 775200
Fax: +44 (0) 1252 775 321
Email: xxxxx@anitetelecoms.com

Anite Telecoms Limited Registered in England No. 1721900 Registered
Office: 100 Longwater Avenue, GreenPark, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GP,
United Kingdom

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