Hello,
According to the following link, it seems (if I understand correctly) that
WDK for windows 8 requires V.S 2013.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852365.aspx
I think this is a mistake.
Why not enable the user (if he/she prefares) to compile with “build –ceZ”
without any external compiler ?
V.S 2013 is a very expensive product.
Regards,
Z.V
No WDK 8 requires VS2012, WDK 8.1 requires VS2013 but can use the Express
version which is free. For information on installing the WDK’s check out
http://www.windrvr.com/2015/05/11/wdk-installation-tips/
Don Burn
Windows Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Zvi Vered
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 3:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Hello,
According to the following link, it seems (if I understand correctly) that
WDK for windows 8 requires V.S 2013.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852365.aspx
I think this is a mistake.
Why not enable the user (if he/she prefares) to compile with “build -ceZ”
without any external compiler ?
V.S 2013 is a very expensive product.
Regards,
Z.V
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
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I think the Express Edition (free) is supported, no?
mm
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Zvi Vered
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 12:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Hello,
According to the following link, it seems (if I understand correctly) that
WDK for windows 8 requires V.S 2013.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852365.aspx
I think this is a mistake.
Why not enable the user (if he/she prefares) to compile with “build -ceZ”
without any external compiler ?
V.S 2013 is a very expensive product.
Regards,
Z.V
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Zvi Vered wrote:
According to the following link, it seems (if I understand correctly) that
WDK for windows 8 requires V.S 2013.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852365.aspxI think this is a mistake.
Why not enable the user (if he/she prefares) to compile with “build –ceZâ€
without any external compiler ?
You’re a little late to this party.
Many years ago, you bought a compiler, you bought the SDK, and you
bought the DDK. This caused endless problems, because people kept
mixing and matching versions. So, in the late 90s, they decided to
starting validating exactly one compiler version and shipping that with
the DDK. However, that compiler version was not synced with the regular
Visual Studio releases, which caused headache for the DDK team. In
addition, today’s whippersnapper programmers aren’t interested in living
their lives in a command line shell. They like IDEs.
So, bowing to pressure, as of the Windows 8 WDK, the WDK is now an
add-on to Visual Studio. This is, overall, a Good Thing. Yes, you have
to go through the one-time pain of converting your “sources” file to a
Visual Studio project, but that’s not hard, and once you have done so,
you can edit, build, and even debug within the IDE.
WDK 8.0 is an add-on to VS2012.
WDK 8.1 is an add-on to VS2013.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Hi Tim and Don,
Thank you for your fast reply.
Best regards,
Z.V
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 11:55 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Zvi Vered wrote:
According to the following link, it seems (if I understand correctly) that
WDK for windows 8 requires V.S 2013.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852365.aspxI think this is a mistake.
Why not enable the user (if he/she prefares) to compile with “build –ceZâ€
without any external compiler ?
You’re a little late to this party.
Many years ago, you bought a compiler, you bought the SDK, and you
bought the DDK. This caused endless problems, because people kept
mixing and matching versions. So, in the late 90s, they decided to
starting validating exactly one compiler version and shipping that with
the DDK. However, that compiler version was not synced with the regular
Visual Studio releases, which caused headache for the DDK team. In
addition, today’s whippersnapper programmers aren’t interested in living
their lives in a command line shell. They like IDEs.
So, bowing to pressure, as of the Windows 8 WDK, the WDK is now an
add-on to Visual Studio. This is, overall, a Good Thing. Yes, you have
to go through the one-time pain of converting your “sources” file to a
Visual Studio project, but that’s not hard, and once you have done so,
you can edit, build, and even debug within the IDE.
WDK 8.0 is an add-on to VS2012.
WDK 8.1 is an add-on to VS2013.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> add-on to Visual Studio. This is, overall, a Good Thing.
A Bad Thing.
Yes, you have
to go through the one-time pain of converting your “sources” file to a
Visual Studio project, but that’s not hard, and once you have done so,
you can edit, build, and even debug within the IDE.
…and have your issues with “deploy” within the IDE
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
Swim up stream, against the current, much?
Peter
OSR
@OSRDriovers
Peter,
While the integration with Visual Studio is nice, I am encountering a
number of shops who are finding “things seem to be unstable” turns out that
every developer had a different set of VS settings for their driver project,
and the QA and release were also different. Now, one can say don’t do that,
but the environment makes it easy to happen, and incredibly painful to
diagnose and get everyone on the same settings.
It is really bad for someone like me who is supplying a component (this
could be a driver, or it could be a set of routines that are going to be
integrated into an existing set of drivers), I find I spend more time
diagnosing the clients environment than I do working on the code.
So VS integration is both a step forward in ease of use, and a step
backwards in quality control and consistency, unless people put in strict
controls on checking in and integrating the project settings.
Don Burn
Windows Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:48 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Swim up stream, against the current, much?
Peter
OSR
@OSRDriovers
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Don,
Part of the problem is that some of the settings we care about (driver
signing and deployment, for instance) are stored in the .vcxproj.user file
instead of the .vcxproj file. The .vcxproj.user file doesn’t really store
user settings, so I’ve had success controlling it with the rest of the
source.
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Don Burn wrote:
> Peter,
>
> While the integration with Visual Studio is nice, I am encountering a
> number of shops who are finding “things seem to be unstable” turns out that
> every developer had a different set of VS settings for their driver
> project,
> and the QA and release were also different. Now, one can say don’t do
> that,
> but the environment makes it easy to happen, and incredibly painful to
> diagnose and get everyone on the same settings.
>
> It is really bad for someone like me who is supplying a component (this
> could be a driver, or it could be a set of routines that are going to be
> integrated into an existing set of drivers), I find I spend more time
> diagnosing the clients environment than I do working on the code.
>
> So VS integration is both a step forward in ease of use, and a step
> backwards in quality control and consistency, unless people put in strict
> controls on checking in and integrating the project settings.
>
>
> Don Burn
> Windows Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:48 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK for windows 8
>
>
>
> Swim up stream, against the current, much?
>
> Peter
> OSR
> @OSRDriovers
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
I don’t disagree, you can do it by putting the project into source control and being careful, the problem is that Visual Studio encourages the “fire it up and away we go” attitude, that comes back to bite you big time with a driver. I first encountered this years ago, before VS officially built drivers because of some firms were trying even back then. It caused me to have concerns about the integrate with VS approach, and so far my concerns have been well founded (at least in the small shops I do a lot of my work with).
When you throw in the choices of comparing XML (bleech!) or taking screen shots of the dialog boxes and comparing them side by side, when this problem occurs the fix is really painful.
Don Burn
Windows Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Phil Selmer
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:43 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Don,
Part of the problem is that some of the settings we care about (driver signing and deployment, for instance) are stored in the .vcxproj.user file instead of the .vcxproj file. The .vcxproj.user file doesn’t really store user settings, so I’ve had success controlling it with the rest of the source.
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Don Burn wrote:
Peter,
While the integration with Visual Studio is nice, I am encountering a
number of shops who are finding “things seem to be unstable” turns out that
every developer had a different set of VS settings for their driver project,
and the QA and release were also different. Now, one can say don’t do that,
but the environment makes it easy to happen, and incredibly painful to
diagnose and get everyone on the same settings.
It is really bad for someone like me who is supplying a component (this
could be a driver, or it could be a set of routines that are going to be
integrated into an existing set of drivers), I find I spend more time
diagnosing the clients environment than I do working on the code.
So VS integration is both a step forward in ease of use, and a step
backwards in quality control and consistency, unless people put in strict
controls on checking in and integrating the project settings.
Don Burn
Windows Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:48 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] WDK for windows 8
Swim up stream, against the current, much?
Peter
OSR
@OSRDriovers
—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> add-on to Visual Studio. This is, overall, a Good Thing.
A Bad Thing.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I, for one, am happy to be
able to build ALL of the products for a client with a single “msbuild”
command. Manipulating SLN and VCXPROJ files is at least as
deterministic as manipulating SOURCES, and a heck of a lot more flexible.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Phil Selmer wrote:
> some of the settings we care about (driver signing and deployment, for
> instance) are stored in the .vcxproj.user file instead of the .vcxproj
> file.
Initially I thought this was a crap idea, but I’ve changed my mind.
Assuming you have an “official” build system that does something like
continuous integration to produce builds for internal testing and/or
release, (and if you don’t what the heck?), it has the driver signing
settings for internal test and for release builds. Your developers have
their own signing settings. You .gitignore .vcxproj.user etc. for
developers. You archive your build system configurations separately from
your source code and don’t ignore .vcxproj.user and everything is blissful.
You can run a setup script to produce initial common settings for devs.
Mark Roddy
Phil Selmer wrote:
Part of the problem is that some of the settings we care about
(driver signing and deployment, for instance) are stored in the
.vcxproj.user file instead of the .vcxproj file. The .vcxproj.user
file doesn’t really store user settings, so I’ve had success
controlling it with the rest of the source.
It’s up to you to decide which things go into vcxproj and which go into
vcxproj.user. The IDE has a starting setup, but they’re just text files.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.