Vista WDK documentation

I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
could be continued here.

Some of the questions from WinHEC:

  1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
    documentation that comes with the WDK?

  2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do you
    use it?

  3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

  4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:

a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx

I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
send stuff to encourage reading this.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

Since I asked, I figured I would mention my opinions (NO! Don never has an
opinion!). See comments inline:

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one
>of the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since
>there were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the
>discussion could be continued here.
>
> Some of the questions from WinHEC:
>
> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
> documentation that comes with the WDK?

I use the local WDK doc’s almost exclusively. I avoid the MSDN since I
don’t want to waste my time going to the web (exception below) and since
the search is then easily constrained to WDK stuff.

> 2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
> you use it?

I hate the idea of the WIKI. Personally I find enough variable quality
advice on the newsgroups, I don’t need to be checking another place to warn
people off from bad advice.

> 3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents
> the WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do
> you use the search from it?

I think the current document explorer stinks. This is the worst one yet
(look for a blog posting in the next day or so on doc explorer). I use
Google to search.

> 4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
> like:
>
> a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
> b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
> c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx
>

Personally, I like sample functions or code fragments. This means the
example is with the doc’s.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

I use the WDK documentation.
I was not aware of the WIKI feature and have no plans to use it.
I don’t have an opinion about “document explorer”. When I do a search it is
usually with Google.
I don’t care if the samples are in the documentation.

Bill Wandel

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]
On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:58 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
could be continued here.

Some of the questions from WinHEC:

  1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
    documentation that comes with the WDK?

  2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do you
    use it?

  3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

  4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:

a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx

I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
send stuff to encourage reading this.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Don Burn wrote:

I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
could be continued here.

Wasn’t there an online survey about this very topic?

Some of the questions from WinHEC:

  1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
    documentation that comes with the WDK?

I use the online doc about 2/3 of the time. That percentage has gone up
considerably since I moved to the WDK. I actually still use the
3790.1830 help files much of the time, for reasons that I will explain
shortly.

  1. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do you
    use it?

Not yet, but I hope to. The PHP folks use this mechanism with their
documentation, and it is perhaps the best single thing about PHP.

  1. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

In my opinion, it is MUCH worse than the previous CHM help. It’s
bigger, much slower, more awkward, less intuitive, and more annoying.
What’s not to like? The link is buried 5 levels deep in the start menu,
and on my rather hot AMD64 X2 3800+ with a 7200 rpm disk, it takes ***15
seconds*** to launch. 15 seconds!! That should be an utter embarrassment.

I just went to a command line and typed
“\ddk\3790.1830\help\kmarch.chm”, and I had a help screen displayed and
ready to serve me in less than a second. I can’t launch the 6000 help
from a command line. Well, OK, I can type this:

“C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Help 8\dexplore.exe”
/helpcol ms-help://ms.WDK.v10.6000
/LaunchNamedUrlTopic HomePage

but, somehow, even with tab completion, that just doesn’t roll off the
fingers in the same way.

  1. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:

a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx

I believe that code fragments are the best way, like the approach taken
in the KMDF documentation. Full samples are incredibly valuable, but I
think they can live on my hard disk or be downloadable.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Doc explorer is hideous.

I get to the msdn documentation by accident through google after losing
interest in whatever motivated me to once again use the search tool in
the doc explorer.

The Wiki idea was news to me at winhec, which is an indication of how
visible it is. I mentioned there that having multiple MSFT versions of
documentation scattered over different bits of their website seemed a
bit contrary to “Windows Hardware and Driver Central” and that as there
was not going to be any particular effort to incorporate wiki additions
into the ‘official’ docs (which are now not clearly official as there
are multiple versions,) the wiki seems a bit pointless. But hey everyone
has a wiki. And a blog. Maybe they should combine the two? MSDN
Wikablogia. Or maybe it is just a Bliki.

Samples should of course be inline in the docs and need not be full
programs, but should be functional compilable samples that are ready for
cut’n’paste disasters in your driver, which means that they ought to
have at least been part of a functional driver program at some point in
time.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Bill Wandel
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:23 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

I use the WDK documentation.
I was not aware of the WIKI feature and have no plans to use it.
I don’t have an opinion about “document explorer”. When I do a search it
is
usually with Google.
I don’t care if the samples are in the documentation.

Bill Wandel

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]
On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 12:58 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one
of
the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since
there
were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the
discussion
could be continued here.

Some of the questions from WinHEC:

  1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
    documentation that comes with the WDK?

  2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
    you
    use it?

  3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents
    the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do
    you
    use the search from it?

  4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be

like:

a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx

I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back
to
right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails
to
send stuff to encourage reading this.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply


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Comments inline …

“Don Burn”
Sent by: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
05/30/2007 01:21 PM
Please respond to
“Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

To
“Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
cc

Subject
[ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one
of
the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the
discussion
could be continued here.

Some of the questions from WinHEC:

1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
documentation that comes with the WDK?

I use the documentation that comes with the WDK almost exclusively. Online
is significantly slower.

2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
you
use it?

No, and not interested.

3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the

WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
use the search from it?

Like others, I think the new tool is slow and clunky. In fact, I still
have 3790 installed and use its facility for most casual browsing.

4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
like:

a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx

No preference.

I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
send stuff to encourage reading this.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the

documentation that comes with the WDK?

It’s nice to have the kernel calls in the MSDN when I am working on
user-mode stuff and just want to look up a kernel function real quick. It’s
nice, but definitely not where I access kernel info most of the time.

  1. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
    you use it?

No and then obviously no.

  1. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

POS…and I don’t mean “Point of Service”. If it weren’t for Google, I
would have to resort to some old DDK CHM and pray that anything that changed
or changes I could figure out with the new POS help. I guess that answers
how it compares to previous version as well yes? Just to be clear…why did
you break something that worked?

  1. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:

It really isn’t a matter of what I would like. Rather, would Microsoft like
3rd party drivers to stop being a problem to their operating system’s
integrity? Yes? If so, then provide better documentation to folks writing
device drivers for your operating system. It is very simple logic…no?
Not trying to be rude, but geeze I have been doing this for >10years now and
the docs have only gotten marginally better, yet the complaints from
Microsoft about 3rd party drivers continue to escalate. Whose to blame?

Microsoft has experience with this from user-mode no?

My suggestion:

Write some real hard core sample drivers which demonstrate non-trivial
kernel tasks. Include these drivers with the WDK samples. Now, take
snippets of these robust samples and put them inline in the documentation.

Documentation is hard, but it ain’t that hard. Give a few methods to each
of your kernel devs and have them fill out the docs appropriately or
something??

Bill M.

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
>the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
>were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
>could be continued here.
>
> Some of the questions from WinHEC:
>
> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
> documentation that comes with the WDK?
>
> 2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
> you use it?
>
> 3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
> WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
> use the search from it?
>
> 4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
> like:
>
> a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
> b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
> c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx
>
>
> I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
> right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
> send stuff to encourage reading this.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
> Remove StopSpam to reply
>
>

> ----------

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com[SMTP:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] on behalf of Don Burn[SMTP:xxxxx@acm.org]
Reply To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:58 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

  1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
    documentation that comes with the WDK?

Local dosc almost exclusively during development. However, online docs is very good when there is necessary to show docs to somebody else. Just send a link. WDK docs contains parts which are useful for our user mode developers who usually ask me about it.

  1. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do you
    use it?

No. No, but it may not be bad idea.

  1. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

Much worse. Maybe it isn’t the worst version ever but it is at least very close. HTML Help is fast and useful and in this case I’m sure it is the best version of docs browser MS ever released. It could be improved a bit but it shouldn’t be replaced with this crap. I really don’t understand why MS has to completely rewrite docs browser with every major VS version. Previously, there were rather good even versions (4.x, 6.0) and the odd version were just odd (5.0). I’m not sure when the “document explorer” was exactly introduced but it is more than odd. It is weird, hideous, obnoxious and I’m sure there are more similar words in English which could describe it. As others, I keep WDK 3790.1830 docs on my disk just to avoid it.

As for searching, I use Google as others.

  1. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:

I’d prefer fragments which can’t be copy&&pasted as-is. For competent developer it is enough to see principle and for others it is better if they aren’t able to make it working. I mean better for the rest of the world. Sorry for beeing harsh but what we can see sometimes in this list and NTFSD is horrible. This is nothing against beginners, every of us was beginner once, it is against botchers.

Also, some WDK samples may cause more harm than benefit. I’d prefer WinCE model – no samples, just real OS drivers code. The best would be, for both us and MS, if all NT drivers sources are available the same way as for CE. Hopefully MS realizes it once.

Best regards,

Michal Vodicka
UPEK, Inc.
[xxxxx@upek.com, http://www.upek.com]

There was a survey on this topic, conduced by the WDK team.

I think Doron posted the link already…

Peter

There was a survey, it was 99 questions long and it did not talk about
samples or document explorer since these were not realized to be potential
issues until after the feedback sesssions. The survey in fact assumed for
many questions that the normal use was the online MSDN documentation.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> There was a survey on this topic, conduced by the WDK team.
>
> I think Doron posted the link already…
>
> Peter
>
>

I posted a link to the DMA survey, I think the docs are a different
survey.

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:32 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

There was a survey on this topic, conduced by the WDK team.

I think Doron posted the link already…

Peter


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

So many surveys, so little time… and so few results.

At least the DMA survey was interesting,

Peter

Hi Don

Dunno if these quick comments are of use to you; best of luck.

Cheers
Lyndon

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
>the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
>were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
>could be continued here.
>
> Some of the questions from WinHEC:
>
> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
> documentation that comes with the WDK?

Doc comes with WDK but most often from 3790.1830

>
> 2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
> you use it?
>

Heard about it :wink:

> 3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
> WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
> use the search from it?

Document Exploder … bit on the slow side … was happy enough with the
CHM. Just one positive comment - easier to pont colleagues at locators into
the document exploder stuff (mebbe i missed a trick with the CHM?). Search?
I just post to ntfsd/ntdev of course :slight_smile:

>
> 4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
> like:

In-line snippets/fragments might be helpful; but must never replace the
complete sample drivers.

>
> a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
> b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
> c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx
>
>
> I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
> right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
> send stuff to encourage reading this.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
> Remove StopSpam to reply
>
>

Don Burn wrote:

  1. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

Document Explorer seems to be quite fragile (and slow). After
reinstalling VS '05, it’s version of document explorer
seems to conflict with my WDK installation. In the WDK, the contents and
index appear correctly, but
the search functionality is pointing towards the VS '05 help files…
grrr… I can’t find any configuration
settings to fix this; I’ve even searched threw the registry and looked
for config files. I suppose I’m just
going to have to reinstall the WDK…

Never had this type of problem with chm files…

> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the

documentation that comes with the WDK?

When I do development on our drivers (I am not a full time driver
developer) the WDK help is my first source of information.

(Then comes this newsgroup and then other web resources, including MSDN.
When I don’t do development, I still read this newsgroup.)

  1. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation?
    > Do you use it?

No, I was not aware of it. And I will probably never use it.

  • A local search/browse is usually faster than using the online MSDN, so
    the first source of information for me is the locally installed WDK
    documentation.
  • And when I found an article in the WDK documentation, why should I
    look up the very same article in the online version, only to check if
    someone has added a comment?

I think WIKIs are very valuable (we are very successfully using one at
work), but as SO stated before, it is not reasonable to use it if you
have to use yet-another-system. Too many sources of information don’t help.

  1. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
    WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
    use the search from it?

a) It is a good tool, but there are some areas that “need improvement”
(explanation follows).
b) It is better than the October 2005 MSDN library browser. :slight_smile:
c) Are you kidding? “I use it” is very much of an understatement! About
30% of the time I spend in the WDK documentation I am searching and
looking for cross-references.

Document Explorer issues:

  1. What is really a pain is that the contents window does not update
    (e.g. upon request by a button-click) to show me where in the TOC a
    searched-and-found topic is located.
  • When I search for an article, usually the Search function works well
    and I find relevant information quickly.
  • Then I ususally spend several minutes guessing where in the TOC the
    found page is located to see into which contect the matter belongs and
    what other relevant material is in the “vicinity” of the article.
    (This is “lost lifetime”, and therefore very annoying!)
  1. I would be happy if I could integrate some older MSDN library content
    into the WDK help system. We need to use some older version of the SDK,
    but nevertheless I would like to have one access to the information
    (and not have to search in three different systems).

  2. Document Explorer takes over the IE display settings (Text size,
    etc.). And settings changed (like text size) are not stored and kept
    from one Document Explorer Session to the next.

4: As the topic was mentioned before: I would like to (a) store my own
annotations to the documentation, and (b) if possible share them with my
co-workers and/or the community.
(For example collecting links and searches for specific topics to
provided a “guided tour” for someone who co-develops or maintains my
code would be great. Or linking it to specific modules and/or products.)

  1. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
    like:
    a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
    b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
    c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:

Yes, code samples are essential. It is important to see something used
in its environment and also the “surrounding” code.

Personally, I think a., b. and c. should all be used, but for different
purposes / contexts:
a) In the “real world application section”, a full sample shows how a
complete sample works. Of course the sample also lives in the file
system, where it is compiled, etc. But for a first glance it would be
nice to have the file available “on a click” from the documentation.
b) Fully explained and annotated code samples help to understand the
“side issues” - Format b. is helpful for providing more context.
c) Excerpts should be used to highlight or explain one specific issue.

I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
send stuff to encourage reading this.

Not many things translate faster into “return value” than good
documentation and support. Obviously Microsoft does know this -
otherwise they would not have gone to such great lengths already to
improve the available WDKs and Help resources (Thanks!!).
But of course there’s still room for improvement. :slight_smile:

-H

Hagen- I believe I can help with one of the problems you reported-

>

  1. What is really a pain is that the contents window does not update
    (e.g. upon request by a button-click) to show me where in the TOC a
    searched-and-found topic is located.
  • When I search for an article, usually the Search function works well
    and I find relevant information quickly.
  • Then I ususally spend several minutes guessing where in the TOC the
    found page is located to see into which contect the matter belongs and
    what other relevant material is in the “vicinity” of the article.
    (This is “lost lifetime”, and therefore very annoying!)
    <<

On the Toolbar, just to the left of the “Ask A Question” control, is a small circular control with “Sync with Table Of Contents” for its tool tip. Click it and save yourself a “lifetime” next time around!

If for some reason it is not there, then pick the Tools/Customize… menu item, go to the “Commands” tab, pick the “Help” category, pick the “Sync with Table of Contents” control, and drag/drop it onto the toolbar.

I use it myself quite a bit after either “index” or “search” functions.

Bob,

Another way to describe it is “Look for the button that you have no
idea what in the world it could do”, I’ve used this with a number of
friends and clients and everyone found the sync button immediately! Of
course that is not a recomendation for the UI.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

“Bob Kjelgaard” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
Hagen- I believe I can help with one of the problems you reported-

>>
1. What is really a pain is that the contents window does not update
(e.g. upon request by a button-click) to show me where in the TOC a
searched-and-found topic is located.
- When I search for an article, usually the Search function works well
and I find relevant information quickly.
- Then I ususally spend several minutes guessing where in the TOC the
found page is located to see into which contect the matter belongs and
what other relevant material is in the “vicinity” of the article.
(This is “lost lifetime”, and therefore very annoying!)
<<

On the Toolbar, just to the left of the “Ask A Question” control, is a
small circular control with “Sync with Table Of Contents” for its tool tip.
Click it and save yourself a “lifetime” next time around!

If for some reason it is not there, then pick the Tools/Customize… menu
item, go to the “Commands” tab, pick the “Help” category, pick the “Sync
with Table of Contents” control, and drag/drop it onto the toolbar.

I use it myself quite a bit after either “index” or “search” functions.

----- Original Message -----
From: “Don Burn”
Newsgroups: ntdev
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:58 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Vista WDK documentation

>I was at the WinHEC WDK feedback sessions a couple of weeks ago, and one of
>the things Microsoft was asking was about the documentation. Since there
>were only a few people in the room, I figured I would see if the discussion
>could be continued here.
>
> Some of the questions from WinHEC:
>
> 1. Do people use the online MSDN documentation for the WDK or the
> documentation that comes with the WDK?

Mostly the local WDK documentation. And actually the 3790.1830DDK one. As
many others already pointed out, the WDK6000 documentation is 1) slow, 2)
not easily browsable (I simply cannot get used to it, maybe i’m dumb).

>
> 2. Are people aware of the WIKI feature of the MSDN documentation? Do
> you use it?

Yes, and no.

>
> 3. What do people think of “document explorer” the tool that presents the
> WDK documentation? Is it better or worse than previous versions? Do you
> use the search from it?

As i said in 1., it’s slow and less immediate to use that the previous CHM.
I don’t use the search feature much (I usually know exactly where to find
the info I’m looking for), but it looks like even the search feature is
worse in the document explorer.

>
> 4. Would you like to see samples in the documentation? Should they be
> like:
>
> a. Visual studio’s complete programs:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/f1byzb6d(VS.80).aspx
> b. Platform SDK’s samples functions:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365160.aspx
> c. Platform SDK’s code fragments:
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363874.aspx
>

Personally I don’t care about samples in the documentation. I normally go
directly to the samples folder of the DDK/WDK to find what i need. Maybe it
would be useful to have more links to the various samples in the functions
documentation. But code snippets in the documentation would definitely be
useful.

Just my two cents
GV

>
> I’m sure there are enough Microsoft folks to relay the discussion back to
> right people, and those of us who were at the sessions have the emails to
> send stuff to encourage reading this.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
> Remove StopSpam to reply
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

>>
Another way to describe it is “Look for the button that you have no
idea what in the world it could do”, I’ve used this with a number of
friends and clients and everyone found the sync button immediately! Of
course that is not a recomendation for the UI.
<<

Oh, I’d rather it was much bigger and easier to find (and I spent quite some time not being able to find it even after I knew it was there). I just make do with what I’ve got, and this is it, and that’s how it works. Eventually I adapt my methods to whatever my tool set is, and that’s where I am with doc explorer these days.

IMO, good tools, say programmer’s editors- are elusive- everyone knows what the perfect one looks like, and (generally) no two of these perfect examples are exactly alike. So I use the closest and most convenient and learn to live with it.

Which, BTW, is why I would never answer a survey like this myself [too neutral]. Or post to a style discussion (although a strong desire to emit a hopefully humorous reference to “goto ‘hell’” hovered at the forefront of my consciousness much of last week). Even the horrendous ones work after a fashion, and if it gets the job done, the rest is mostly opinion and unfounded supposition…

Anyway, if it saves Hagen or someone else a few minutes next time around, it was worth the time it took to type that post, since he (my apologies if I got the gender wrong) will probably want the advice in the future. This one, of course, is a much better candidate for the bit bucket…

Hagen Patzke wrote:

  • A local search/browse is usually faster than using the online MSDN,

For me, this is provably untrue. I can do a Google search, pick the
first (MSDN) link, and have that page displayed in Firefox before
Document Explorer even launches.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.