Should I start learning Linux driver/os?

NTDEV
1

I have to admit that Windows OS became more and more less market proportion/shares recently. Especially in the mobile market.

On the other hand, in the job/recruit market, more and more JD needs linux/android or ios experience.

As we known, that the high level/really senior/principle/master of OS/driver engineer, the quantity is very very in quantity.
A master of windows os, will take very important role in the system development.
And also, no matter it is Windows OR linux/android/iso, they are OS, you understand one, you will easy to learn the other.

But…
The market in China, need not so much OS master, they need engineer to implementation, need getting job done.

So, when you told the HR, or the manager, you are senior of Windows, he will say, sorry, we need linxu/android/iso engineer.
In this case, you and the manager is not in the same level of understanding of OS, for the manager, what he need is only get thing done.

2

wesley wrote:

The market in China, need not so much OS master, they need
engineer to implementation, need getting job done.

So, when you told the HR, or the manager, you are senior of
Windows, he will say, sorry, we need linxu/android/iso engineer.

Linux is popular in China because the folks there don’t want to pay $$ for a Windows license, right? (and maybe because you think we put back doors in it?) That’s one reason to start learning right there.

And yeah, if you think you want to chase the job market into mobile, then yes, knowing (only) Windows is not going to look well on your resume.

In this case, you and the manager is not in the same level of
understanding of OS, for the manager, what he need is only
get thing done.

Your manager will never know anything. That’s why he’s a manager.

3

(This post is inherently off-topic. Let’s not make such posts a habit. Please??)

No.

Yes. But, nobody knows what the future will bring, do they?

If you want to maximize your job options? Yes. Absolutely.

But, having said that: It’s more important to know ONE operating system well, than TWO operating systems badly. If you’re good at writing drivers for Linux OR Windows, great. If you suck at writing drivers for Windows AND Linux, that’s not good for you. If you’re GOOD at writing drivers for Linux AND Windows… well… that’s GREAT.

Party on,

Peter
OSR

4

> Linux is popular in China because the folks there don’t want to pay $$ for a Windows license, right?

(and maybe because you think we put back doors in it?)

Actually, in terms of ignorance the above statement can already compete with Mr.Kyler’s ones, but this is so wildly off-topic for NTDEV that I digress…

Anton Bassov

5

Sorry, who is Mr.Kyler?

6

Past history, bro… You need to have been reading the list for years to understand this reference. Both Mr. Bassov and Mr. Aseltine (to whom the comment was directed) have been here that long.

You *really* don’t want to know the story.

Well… Let’s examine Mr. Aseltine’s statement:

It turns out, as of August of this year, over 70% of China’s PCs are running Windows. Windows XP to be precise (source: Computerworld and dailytech.com). And… guess what? According to Wikipedia, “the majority of users in China run on a pirated copy of Windows” and according to china.org.cn this is because “The price is completely unreasonable in China. Some Internet users even suspect Microsoft’s actions to be a conspiracy against Chinese computer users.” Note that Windows XP was the last version of Windows that could be easily pirated, and Windows Genuine Advantage is OPTIONAL.

Mr. Assseltine said: “the folks there [in China] don’t want to pay $$ for a Windows license”

china.org.cn says: “[Chinese] users polled complained about the high price of Microsoft software. The price factor is the major reason why they turn to piracy.”

So, I think Mr. Aseltine might not be so ridiculously far off, Mr. Bassov. In fact, I think he’s probably right.

Peter
OSR

7

Peter Viscarola (OSR) wrote:

So, I think Mr. Aseltine might not be so ridiculously far off,
Mr. Bassov. In fact, I think he’s probably right.

What can I say…I know my +86’ers :slight_smile:

8

The more you know/learn, the better are your chances in terms of job market. This is more or less obvious.

Windows on desktops and laptops does not decrease at all. It only fails the mobile market.

–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I have to admit that Windows OS became more and more less market proportion/shares recently. Especially in the mobile market.
>
> On the other hand, in the job/recruit market, more and more JD needs linux/android or ios experience.
>
> As we known, that the high level/really senior/principle/master of OS/driver engineer, the quantity is very very in quantity.
> A master of windows os, will take very important role in the system development.
> And also, no matter it is Windows OR linux/android/iso, they are OS, you understand one, you will easy to learn the other.
>
> But…
> The market in China, need not so much OS master, they need engineer to implementation, need getting job done.
>
> So, when you told the HR, or the manager, you are senior of Windows, he will say, sorry, we need linxu/android/iso engineer.
> In this case, you and the manager is not in the same level of understanding of OS, for the manager, what he need is only get thing done.
>
>
>
>
>

9

> Past history, bro… You need to have been reading the list for years to understand this reference.

Both Mr. Bassov and Mr. Aseltine (to whom the comment was directed) have been here that long.

Mr. Kyler said harsh things about Soviet communist massacres of the Russian Civil War and Stalin’s purges and then said that Mr. Bassov is immoral and evil for his nickname of “soviet_bloke”.

–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

10

> Mr. Kyler said harsh things about Soviet communist massacres of the Russian Civil War

and Stalin’s purges and then said that Mr. Bassov is immoral and evil for his nickname of “soviet_bloke”.

This is just a part of what he had said on that memorable thread. Apart from that, he was also claiming that
he had never ever bought a computer made in China in his entire life, that he did not know of any jurisdiction where buying the computer withoutthe OS is illegal, etc. This is exactly what I was referring to
earlier on this thread when I mentioned him and spoke about “ignorance”.

I was specifically arguing with the suggestion that someone may be running Linux only because he/she does not want to pay for Windows license. In actuality, whenever you buy a new computer you have Windows already pre-installed on it. Ironically, according to the Chinese laws (that, btw, were passed upon the request of Mr.Gates - it is as simple as that down there) any computer that leaves the factory is required to have the OS already pre-installed on it. The excuse for this is that it is supposedly a measure against software piracy in China where, indeed, computers rarely run licensed Windows versions. However, if we take into consideration that the vast majority of the computers sold in the West are produced in China, this legislation has rather different implications - anyone who wants to run Linux on the OEM machine has to run defenestration process first…

Anton Bassov

11

> OEM machine has to run defenestration process first…

ROTFLMFAO!!!

12

> >OEM machine has to run defenestration process first…

ROTFLMFAO!!!

Or, alternatively, put the “alternative” OS (no pun intended) on another disk - IIRC, OEM Windows installer
runs automatically and does not give you a chance to partition the disk the way you wish. Instead, it creates
a partition that covers the rest of the disk (the OS installer files are located on the separate partition), and installs Windows on it…

Anton Bassov

13

I call bullshit.

Citation to reputable source, please.

Peter
OSR

14

Further, this does not add up.

I have cited a reputable report that 70% of the computers in China are running Windows XP.

So, you’re telling me that 70% of the computers in China are more than 10 years old? Or else, people got their new PCs with their new Windows licenses, and installed Windows XP?
Peter
OSR

15

> I call bullshit. Citation to reputable source, please.

Well, I don’ really know what your criteria of “reputable source” is, but, on my books,
in this context “Businessweek” can qualify for the one (although, for the obvious reasons, I DEFINITELY would not refer to it if we were discussing technical aspects of any description).Here is the article:

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-04-25/microsofts-china-card

I have cited a reputable report that 70% of the computers in China are running Windows XP.
So, you’re telling me that 70% of the computers in China are more than 10 years old?
Or else, people got their new PCs with their new Windows licenses, and installed Windows XP?

Actually, this article explains the situation with at least with Lenovo brand, and the figures it provides totally correspond to the ones that you have mentioned

Anton Bassov

16

On 11/23/2013 12:00 AM, xxxxx@osr.com wrote:

I call bullshit.

Citation to reputable source, please.

http://www.informationweek.com/chinese-piracy-law-helps-windows-gates-hosts-chinese-president/d/d-id/1042317?
?

–
Bruce Cran

17

Thanks for the cite. I learned something today.

But… It can be any OS pre-installed. Including Linux.

So, yes… People still have to pay to install Windows, and clearly find it too expensive to do so (per my previous cite).

Peter
OSR

18

In the west the situation is not different. Although not backed by law, the
same reality of not being able to buy naked systems instead comes from a
deal between MS and the OEM.

The first thing that I have to do when buying a new system is to get rid of
whatever Windows (Dutch/German/Italian) they put on it and install an
English copy of the Windows version that I want to run.

Now if I could get back the “Windows tax” for my notebook collection that
would make for a nice christmas present.

//Daniel

“Bruce Cran” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
http://www.informationweek.com/chinese-piracy-law-helps-windows-gates-hosts-chinese-president/d/d-id/1042317?
?

19

> Although not backed by law, the same reality of not being able to buy naked systems instead comes

from a deal between MS and the OEM.

Believe me or not, but as recently as last week I saw a laptop in the store without Windows pre-installed.
I just refused to believe my own eyes when I saw it. Another interesting thing that I noticed was that none of the machines that come with Windows 8 pre-installed had MSFT logo on them. I just wonder if it is somehow related to UEFI and safe boot…

The first thing that I have to do when buying a new system is to get rid of whatever
Windows (Dutch/German/Italian) they put on it and install an English copy of the Windows
version that I want to run.

Actually, IIRC, this part is customizeable - you are given a choice of languages when you run OEM machine the first time…

Now if I could get back the “Windows tax” for my notebook collection that would make
for a nice christmas present.

Theoretically it may be possible for some models (it is explicitly mentioned in the store when you buy the one), but in practice it is a cumbersome process that one would not go through in order to get back 40-50 euros. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as telling sales assistant " I don’t need any Windows so please give me a computer without it". I general, I just wonder which direction the EU Commission is looking in if it does not notice things like that. Apparently, it just prefers not to notice them - after all, bundling the OS with a computer without giving buyers any option seems to be just a gross violation of EU antitrust legislation…

Anton Bassov

20

I don’t have any specific knowledge about what contracts MS and OEMs might have, but I could imagine the MS sales folks giving a better price on the Windows license if an OEM puts it on every machine of some class. I’d almost bet MS looks at how many machines would not have Windows installed, and calculates the discount and terms such that it costs LESS for the OEM to put Windows on every machine than to put Windows only on the machines that customers want it on. This way, the OEM pays a lower total license fee, and MS gets their OS on a few more machines than they might otherwise. Is this better for end customers, for the ones who want a copy of Windows, it seems likely yes. These customers are happy because they can get a copy of Windows preinstalled cheaper. For the ones who don’t want Windows, they are basically subsidizing the people who do want Windows, and I would guess they are not happy.

Some might argue they are subsidizing all kinds of features they are not using. For example, not everybody is using the virtualization support in the processor, yet nearly all processors now have this support, and the people who don’t need it are subsidizing the people who do need it. I haven’t heard many complaints about the virtualization hardware tax.

It’s a bit like buying a car with some advanced feature. If the manufacturer puts that feature on every car, they can spread the R&D cost across a larger customer base, and lower the price of that feature, although some customers will be forced to pay for a feature they might have preferred not to get.

Jan

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@resplendence.com
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:45 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] Should I start learning Linux driver/os?

In the west the situation is not different. Although not backed by law, the same reality of not being able to buy naked systems instead comes from a deal between MS and the OEM.

The first thing that I have to do when buying a new system is to get rid of whatever Windows (Dutch/German/Italian) they put on it and install an English copy of the Windows version that I want to run.

Now if I could get back the “Windows tax” for my notebook collection that would make for a nice christmas present.

//Daniel

“Bruce Cran” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
http://www.informationweek.com/chinese-piracy-law-helps-windows-gates-hosts-chinese-president/d/d-id/1042317?
?

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