RE: "Just say no to responding"

NTFSD
1

With respect to the suggestion from several people about not responding
to queries in the forum, I will share a slightly different “slant” on
the issue based upon my own experience.

Sometimes, there are questions that, to me, do not make sense or for
which I have no clear or obvious answer or I’m sleeping and hence not
able to answer immediately. My experience is that when I don’t answer
such questions I will see that question at least two more times - once
when it is reposted (sometimes more when it is cross-posted) and then
once when the individual sends the question directly to me.

I actually didn’t answer the original question because on it surface it
makes no sense to me. The choice of programming language has nothing to
do with the mechanism for invoking (or circumventing) the operating
system, so from my initial read I was left feeling the question was a
bit like “how much orange juice should I put in the fuel tank of my
Airbus A-340 in order to get it to go faster” (note: this is an attempt
at humor. Hopefully at least one person will chuckle.)

In my experience, people who are new to the development of “mission
critical” software start with a critical deficit - they don’t even know
what they don’t know, so they are unaware of the questions to ask to
educate themselves. This isn’t unique to Windows, but it is perhaps
exacerbated by the fact that the source code is not generally available
and in the file systems space, at least, the development paradigm is
rather complicated. This is different than in Linux where the file
systems space has a much simpler paradigm but appears to have a much
more complex application development paradigm (I would suggest this
might be why there are many file systems on Linux relative to Windows,
while the reverse is true of applications). I realize this is a bit of
a simplification.

And honestly, I have no idea what the effect of orange juice will be for
the performance of your jet. No doubt it depends upon the type of
orange juice and the ratio of juice to pulp.

Regards,

Tony

Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com

Looking forward to seeing you at the next OSR File Systems class in Los
Angeles, CA October 24-27, 2005.

2

So often, on this list or on NTDEV, people ask questions that demonstrate
that they have *already* chosen a broken design, and they want the list to
help them “fix” an inherently broken design. The experts then reply,
saying, “You’re doomed. Go back and start over.” The poster doesn’t like
to hear this, because the reply doesn’t answer their question, and because
it criticizes their entire approach, not just their ignorance of some
particular issue.

Well, too bad, boo hoo. Silence will only reinforce the broken design; the
poster will find some other place to find bad information on making their
bad approach “sort of” work. I think it’s far better for people to get
criticism from experienced people, and to do something about it (fix the
design!) than to whine about “arrogance”. Who’s more arrogant – the
experienced engineer who tells the truth, or the hack who sticks to his
ignorance instead of listening to experience?

Oh, and I think grapefruit juice works better than orange juice.

– arlie

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tony Mason
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:24 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntfsd] “Just say no to responding”

With respect to the suggestion from several people about not responding to
queries in the forum, I will share a slightly different “slant” on the issue
based upon my own experience.

Sometimes, there are questions that, to me, do not make sense or for which I
have no clear or obvious answer or I’m sleeping and hence not able to answer
immediately. My experience is that when I don’t answer such questions I
will see that question at least two more times - once when it is reposted
(sometimes more when it is cross-posted) and then once when the individual
sends the question directly to me.

I actually didn’t answer the original question because on it surface it
makes no sense to me. The choice of programming language has nothing to do
with the mechanism for invoking (or circumventing) the operating system, so
from my initial read I was left feeling the question was a bit like “how
much orange juice should I put in the fuel tank of my Airbus A-340 in order
to get it to go faster” (note: this is an attempt at humor. Hopefully at
least one person will chuckle.)

In my experience, people who are new to the development of “mission
critical” software start with a critical deficit - they don’t even know what
they don’t know, so they are unaware of the questions to ask to educate
themselves. This isn’t unique to Windows, but it is perhaps exacerbated by
the fact that the source code is not generally available and in the file
systems space, at least, the development paradigm is rather complicated.
This is different than in Linux where the file systems space has a much
simpler paradigm but appears to have a much more complex application
development paradigm (I would suggest this might be why there are many file
systems on Linux relative to Windows, while the reverse is true of
applications). I realize this is a bit of a simplification.

And honestly, I have no idea what the effect of orange juice will be for the
performance of your jet. No doubt it depends upon the type of orange juice
and the ratio of juice to pulp.

Regards,

Tony

Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com

Looking forward to seeing you at the next OSR File Systems class in Los
Angeles, CA October 24-27, 2005.

Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: ‘’
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

3

– arlie,

Obviously this comment is directed at me. I mean no disrepect to anyone on
this list. I recognize that most here have more experiance than I.

I’m not boo hooing over a broken design, as stated I have ZERO intentetions
of releasing anything anywhere. In case you or other missed it, this was a
theoroetical question regarding design. There is no design to be broken
here.

If you read the previous comments, I’ve stated clearly that I’m here to
learn. I’ve been watchig this list for a couple of months, but came out with
a question this morning(to much discussion | flaming).

Some on this list have indicated that what I asked about was possible,
others disagree.

4

Actually, this comment wasn’t directed at you. It is just a recurring issue
with NTFSD/NTDEV.

You at least have some legitimate problem to solve, and are asking for a
solution; you aren’t starting in the weeds, unlike some of the bizarre posts
that have come up.

– arlie

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Matt Martin
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 12:39 PM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntfsd] “Just say no to responding”

– arlie,

Obviously this comment is directed at me. I mean no disrepect to anyone on
this list. I recognize that most here have more experiance than I.

I’m not boo hooing over a broken design, as stated I have ZERO intentetions
of releasing anything anywhere. In case you or other missed it, this was a
theoroetical question regarding design. There is no design to be broken
here.

If you read the previous comments, I’ve stated clearly that I’m here to
learn. I’ve been watchig this list for a couple of months, but came out with
a question this morning(to much discussion | flaming).

Some on this list have indicated that what I asked about was possible,
others disagree.

Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: xxxxx@stonestreetone.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

5

Tony

I chuckled at the orange juice in an airbus joke :slight_smile:

I would go furhter on your critical deficit piont - its worse than “don’t
even know
what they don’t know” its more like “don’t even know
that they don’t know” if you see what I mean; I speak from personal
experience.

Regards
Lyndon

“Tony Mason” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntfsd…
With respect to the suggestion from several people about not responding
to queries in the forum, I will share a slightly different “slant” on
the issue based upon my own experience.

Sometimes, there are questions that, to me, do not make sense or for
which I have no clear or obvious answer or I’m sleeping and hence not
able to answer immediately. My experience is that when I don’t answer
such questions I will see that question at least two more times - once
when it is reposted (sometimes more when it is cross-posted) and then
once when the individual sends the question directly to me.

I actually didn’t answer the original question because on it surface it
makes no sense to me. The choice of programming language has nothing to
do with the mechanism for invoking (or circumventing) the operating
system, so from my initial read I was left feeling the question was a
bit like “how much orange juice should I put in the fuel tank of my
Airbus A-340 in order to get it to go faster” (note: this is an attempt
at humor. Hopefully at least one person will chuckle.)

In my experience, people who are new to the development of “mission
critical” software start with a critical deficit - they don’t even know
what they don’t know, so they are unaware of the questions to ask to
educate themselves. This isn’t unique to Windows, but it is perhaps
exacerbated by the fact that the source code is not generally available
and in the file systems space, at least, the development paradigm is
rather complicated. This is different than in Linux where the file
systems space has a much simpler paradigm but appears to have a much
more complex application development paradigm (I would suggest this
might be why there are many file systems on Linux relative to Windows,
while the reverse is true of applications). I realize this is a bit of
a simplification.

And honestly, I have no idea what the effect of orange juice will be for
the performance of your jet. No doubt it depends upon the type of
orange juice and the ratio of juice to pulp.

Regards,

Tony

Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com

Looking forward to seeing you at the next OSR File Systems class in Los
Angeles, CA October 24-27, 2005.