Gary,
it is strange. I use SI for more than 5 year and don’t remember real problem
with symbols in the past. Well, I tried to avoid NT5 beta cycle as possible
but used latest RCs. I used XP betas and till RC1 there was no problem. I’m
not sure if messages in news groups and this list are a good indication of
problems. Yes, there was a “problem” when VC6 symbols were introduced. The
solution was to add a directory with mspdb60.dll to the path or copy it to
SI directory. Also, many “problems” are caused by inexperienced users who
aren’t able to RTFM. Mark was quite right when wrote such problems should be
solved by tech support. I can confirm it mostly works. Maybe there were
problems with symbols I haven’t noticed but sure not so often as you
implied.
I didn’t want to say NMS solution is the best ever but that there are good
reasons for it. And the fact the issue is more religious and economical is
the reason why I wanted you don’t hear “Da Devil” so often 
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
Veridicom
(RKK - Skytale)
[WWW: http://www.veridicom.com , http://www.skytale.com]
From: Gary Little[SMTP:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Reply To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:18 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with
So ftICE?Michal,
Every beta that I have been involved with from Nt 5 (2000) till now, have
had builds that kill SoftIce NMS files. When I say “kill” I mean that
symbols either could not be accessed and or used during an active debug
session. How do I know this since I don’t use SoftIce? I monitor several
news groups and this list. Marks comments verify this, also. In every
build/release cycle of Windows OSs, there have been builds where Numega
hand
perform that NMS magic to get symbols to work … again … and again …
and
again … and again.NMS symbols may be superior, but they obviously are not better
But as it is has been pointed out, this is more of a religious and/or an
economical issue. The fact is that I can put together a dual processor
system cheaper than it will cost me to buy an annual subscription to
Developer Studio so that I can use SoftIce.And I do solemnly swear that I will make no more “Da Devil made me do it”
comments about the subject.Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com-----Original Message-----
From: Michal Vodicka [mailto:xxxxx@veridicom.cz.nospam]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:46 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?Well, I don’t know exactly what is necessary to access/convert symbols and
don’t want to guess or show incomplete info. Hopefully Alberto can provide
details.You’re missing several things:
- the difference between debugger running always in kernel mode and a
debugger with user mode interface (hint: in the user mode you can load any
DLL)- there is no real difference between access and conversion. If you’re
able
to access, you can convert to different format. To access, you need a tool
(i.e DLL) and documented API. If API change, you have to change both
access
and conversion.- PDB format changed between beta 2 and RC1. You can’t access new format
with old utilities (update is necessary in any case).Note that ‘magic’ worked several years with no change and no problem.
Current problem is caused by a format change. When a problem is solved, it
is very probable it will works next several years. I don’t understand
which
problem (the build/release symbol problem thatperiodically hinders the
product for use in debugging drivers during a beta cycle) do you mean. It
is
the first problem with symbols I remember.Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
Veridicom
(RKK - Skytale)
[WWW: http://www.veridicom.com , http://www.skytale.com]> ----------
> From: Gary Little[SMTP:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
> Reply To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:03 AM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with
> So ftICE?
>
> Oooohhhh … so the PDB is accessible with the proper tools? Then why
> doesn’t
> NuMega have, and or use those tools? The PDB files are released with
each
> build, and thus available at the time of release. If SoftIce utilized
the
> PDB files then they just might avoid the build/release symbol problem
that
> periodically hinders the product for use in debugging drivers during a
> beta
> cycle. Supporting the PDB and NMS makes a lot since. Why doesn’t SoftIce
> provide that support? Supporting only NMS is a bit arrogant, and
obviously
> foolish.
>
> Sorry, regardless of the strength of the NMS files they still have a
very
> large weakness … Numega must work some NuMega magic to support all
> builds
> of a Windows OS.
>
> Gary G. Little
> Staff Engineer
> Broadband Storage, Inc.
> xxxxx@broadstor.com
>
>
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