Hmmmm… Well ok, but I do seem to remember that softice had similar
transitional problems with both NT4 and W2K. But anyway, Alberto’s statement
was that softice would always lag behind os releases, and that to me is a
problem. I don’t disagree with your statement that numega’s problem is the
result of microsoft changing the OS during beta. However, what microsoft
really has changed is the definition of beta, and that change happened
almost ten years ago as windos95 started to go through its rather painful
‘beta’ cycle. Beta no longer means functionally complete, no known major
defects. It is way looser than that. The fact that major changes are made to
the OS in the beta cycle is simply an observed fact of life, get used to it.
Numega is just another pilot fish in the business of making money off of the
great white shark of microsoft, not the other way around. It ain’t
microsoft’s problem how softice works.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Jackson [mailto:xxxxx@nmwco.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:42 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?
Mark & all:
The serious problem with SoftIce and XP happened late in the dev cycle; not
for the whole time. M$ decided to change their structures just as RC1 came
out. Nice timing?
I didn’t have a problem w/SoftIce as NT 4.0 became W2K or for the most part
as W2K became XP. So this issue, as painful as it is, is not the norm.
I find it hard to fault Numega when it was M$ that made the last minute
change. If you made a change in your product that had a similar effect on
your Beta users/customers just as your asking them to test your “nearly
golden” version, that had been working fine, they would question your
decisions. But nobody is going to question M$ for this decision?
I still don’t understand why M$ doesn’t provide this type of info to Numega
in a more timely manner. It would help developers, thus help users. And
there doesn’t seem to be a competitive issue since M$'s debuggers are
strategic products that must cost them more than they return. Do you think
that M$ plans to go after this market too?
If you don’t want to buy SoftIce, don’t. However, the finger of blame
shouldn’t be pointed at Numega alone.
Michael S. Jackson
xxxxx@netmotionwireless.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 10:25 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?I’ve got an idea: send softice support questions to
compuware/numega rather
than this list. That way Gary and Alberto do not have to go at itSoftice is a great product. I am in awe of people who can
actually use it.
Not being able to keep up with the microsoft beta cycle is
however a SERIOUS
HINDERANCE FOR A DRIVER DEVELOPMENT TOOL. The reality is that
just as soon
as one version of windows goes to released status, the beta
cycle for the
next version starts. It is in fact a perpetual beta, and
softice is, and
apparently always will be, seriously lagging microsoft
releases. Alberto you
are basically saying: if you use our tools, don’t bother with
windows x.x
development until some period AFTER the release. Anyone who
needs to release
products concurrent with windows releases is sol. A lot of us
have been
building and testing drivers for XP for most of this year,
softice simply is
not an option.-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Little [mailto:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?Alberto,
My only need is a development/debugger system that works with
any release of
Windows. Perhaps the biggest problem with SoftIce is that it
insists on
using NMS files instead of the PDB files that are generated by the
compiler/linker? SoftIce does not have a brilliant track
record in keeping
up with the latest release of Windows. Period. A new version of XP is
released and the boys and girls using SoftIce start bitching
about SoftIce
not working. That is a fact, not something made up.
- It is expensive. I can purchase a dual processor system for what it
costs. 2. It is not reliable across multiple releases of Windows.
Were I using it,
I could not
have successfully debugged my drivers across all releases of
XP, as those
releases were released.And sorry, but I do expect a major tool that I depend on to work, most
specifically when I pay that amount of money.Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:59 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?Gary,
I hate to put it this way, but if you really need access to Microsoft
Confidential information, before they decide to release it even to the
first tier development community, maybe you should stick with the
Microsoft tools
?You cannot possibly demand that we provide support for brand
new Microsoft
functionality before Microsoft themselves do it ! Nor even
simultaneously,
we haven’t got to the crystal ball level as yet, and my name
ain’t Gandalf.
If your need is such that only Microsoft products can satisfy
it, that’s ok,
but is it fair to throw barbs at us whenever you can, just
because we aren’t
Microsoft ? But there are things we can do that they don’t,
just like there
are things they do that we don’t - if we couldn’t
differentiate somehow,
we’d not sell anything.Unless we blow it, we’re going to have full XP support this
week. I’m not
talking about SoftICE, I’m talking about the whole suite,
including full C++
wizard-driven driver development support, an intelligent
timing tool, a code
coverage tool, a fully distributed environment over tcp/ip,
multiple-master
multiple-target driver development and debugging, and more.
Granted, you may
not need any of that, maybe all you need is a debugger that
lets you put
together your C code on the latest version of XP in your two-machine
configuration over a serial port. But even then, we will have
that too,
soon, the difference is a few weeks, when did XP build 2600
come out ? If
you aren’t willing to wait, fine, but spare us your
criticism, because I
don’t quite believe we deserve it.For the rest of you, bear with me for a little while longer,
and you’re
going to see yet another honest product coming out of our ovens.Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Little [mailto:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:33 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?Oh darn, I hate to mention this, but WinDbg has not problems with
symbologies … at all.(Da devil made me say that!!!)
Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 7:57 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?You need the forthcoming DriverStudio 2.6 release to run on
build 2600 of
Windows XP. We should be shipping a beta version this week to
a very limited
set of people. General release is slated for later this year.Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: Varadan Venkatesh [mailto:xxxxx@tataelxsi.co.in]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:34 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at
source-level with SoftICE?Hello,
Which version of Windows are you using? There is a problem
with the compiler
version of Windows. If we use build utility of Windows build
version 2462,
everything will work fine and softice identifies the debug
information.
Beyond 2462, this problem arises!Regards
Venky–>-----Original Message-----
–>From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
–>[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of kdriver
–>Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:58 AM
–>To: NT Developers Interest List
–>Subject: [ntdev] How can I debug my driver at source-level with
–>SoftICE?
–>
–>
–>Hi, all.
–>
–>I wrote a driver with DDK, and build it with DDK BUILD
utility. And
–>then
I
–>want to create a NMS file from the built *.sys file, but the Symbol
Loader
–>told me “No debug information found”, and I’m sure the *.sys was
–>built
with
–>checked build environment… What’s the reason?
–>
–>
–>And I will be very glad if somebody can teach me a way to
do that…
–>
–>thanks in advance…
–>
–>
–>—
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