>If you want a tool that will get you 0-60 faster than your competition
could ever
even think of getting there, use a tool like WinDK.
I always thought it was appropriate to learn to drive BEFORE finding
yourself at the steering wheel of a potential lethal weapon going 60.
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You have to know what you are doing period, I will agree with that. But,
you don’t have to know everything to get productive. For instance you
don’t necessarily need to know how to read/write the registry, or setup a
device interface, or setup an INF, or a million other little things to get
your driver out the door if you have a toolkit to help you. You should
learn these things, but you shouldn’t be held up by them.
Plus which do you think is faster. Trying to figure out how to write a
scatter/gather DMA driver that works on 98 and 2000 with just the DDK. Or
with real world samples and library code written by experts?
Using WinDK I learned more in my first 6 months than someone using just the
DDK would get in 2 years. It just is that helpful. Also, I can help a
customer get their hardware going a whole lot faster than someone just
using the DDK could do any day and I can say that without reservation.
Anyway, this is way too religious a discussion, as on the order of C vs.
C++ so I am stepping out. Flame at will.
Bill M.
On 10/30/01, “Jan Bottorff ” wrote:
> >If you want a tool that will get you 0-60 faster than your competition
> >could ever
> >even think of getting there, use a tool like WinDK.
>
> I always thought it was appropriate to learn to drive BEFORE finding
> yourself at the steering wheel of a potential lethal weapon going 60.
>
> - Jan
>
>
> —
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wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> You have to know what you are doing period, I will agree with that. But,
> you don’t have to know everything to get productive. For instance you
> don’t necessarily need to know how to read/write the registry, or setup a
> device interface, or setup an INF, or a million other little things to get
> your driver out the door if you have a toolkit to help you. You should
> learn these things, but you shouldn’t be held up by them.
>
> Plus which do you think is faster. Trying to figure out how to write a
> scatter/gather DMA driver that works on 98 and 2000 with just the DDK. Or
> with real world samples and library code written by experts?
>
Let us not confuse the issue of using a toolkit or class library with having
a set of “samples… written by experts.” Bring on an extended set of
examples based on the DDK!
The question isn’t: “Is it better to re-invent all your own code, or use
code that somebody else wrote that you have good reason to believe will
work.” Duh! Who can argue that it’s not good to re-invent the wheel.
The question IS: “Is it better to use a set of abstractions that are layered
on to top of the ones that the operating system defines… or is it better
to work directly with the operating system’s interface.”
I’d argue it’s better to just use the interface the O/S defines… It’s the
one that’s mandatory. What possible advantage is there to my having to
learn MORE stuff, yet ANOTHER interface, if I’m gonna have to also learn the
O/S interface anyways.
During the discussion, somebody wrote: “It’s sorta like MFC for drivers.”
I’d say that’s a good analogy. As long as you try to use those friggin’ MFC
routines PRECISELY the way they were intended, and the way the examples are
written, everything’s great. But veer off the path even SLIGHTLY, and ugh!
You can be off spending days trying to figure out why the damn list control
(or whatever) doesn’t work the way it’s documented. Not to mention that
fact that I really don’t mind sloppy, enormous, plodding, inefficient code
that MFC produces in the sorts of user-mode programs that I write (which
are, essentially, throwaways). But I’m thinkin’ that I’d prefer my driver
code not sink to that level.
Peter
OSR
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>>Using WinDK I learned more in my first 6 months than someone using
just the
DDK would get in 2 years.<<
How do youknow how long it took me to come up to speed?
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@bsquare.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:57 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: 3rd party Device driver development tool or- pure
wdm driver development…Which is the best???
You have to know what you are doing period, I will agree with that.
But,
you don’t have to know everything to get productive. For instance you
don’t necessarily need to know how to read/write the registry, or setup
a
device interface, or setup an INF, or a million other little things to
get
your driver out the door if you have a toolkit to help you. You should
learn these things, but you shouldn’t be held up by them.
Plus which do you think is faster. Trying to figure out how to write a
scatter/gather DMA driver that works on 98 and 2000 with just the DDK.
Or
with real world samples and library code written by experts?
Using WinDK I learned more in my first 6 months than someone using just
the
DDK would get in 2 years. It just is that helpful. Also, I can help a
customer get their hardware going a whole lot faster than someone just
using the DDK could do any day and I can say that without reservation.
Anyway, this is way too religious a discussion, as on the order of C vs.
C++ so I am stepping out. Flame at will.
Bill M.
On 10/30/01, “Jan Bottorff ” wrote:
> >If you want a tool that will get you 0-60 faster than your
> >competition could ever even think of getting there, use a tool like
> >WinDK.
>
> I always thought it was appropriate to learn to drive BEFORE finding
> yourself at the steering wheel of a potential lethal weapon going 60.
>
> - Jan
>
>
> —
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Just to get my two cents in… I agree with most every argument pro and con regarding
driver toolkits recently mentioned.
However, In my previous job I wrote an NT driver from scratch by reading the MS
documentation. It was difficult reading, and took a while for me to get a driver up and
running.
In my current job, I wrote a driver using the WinDk toolkit. The driver was quick to
develop and get running. When the toolkit didn’t do everything exactly the way I needed,
I was able to dig through the toolkit source (costs extra but worth it) with a little
effort and make neccesary changes. When I needed to support multiple devices of the same
type, it worked first time. When I need to support multiple CPUs, it worked the first
time. I don’t think I would have been able to do that without WinDk.
Granted the device I am controlling is a very simple device, and after writing a driver
the hard way the first time offered a great deal of learning experience, the second time
was bound to be easier.
As far as tech support for WinDk went (previously by Blue Water Systems), I found them to
be extremely helpful. Hopefuly bSquare is just as good.
I am not affiliated with WinDk at all. Just a happy customer.
Joe D
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> fact that I really don’t mind sloppy, enormous, plodding, inefficient code
that MFC produces in the sorts of user-mode programs that I write (which
That’s why I wrote the NP DLL in plain C without both C++ and MFC when I needed one.
Pulling the whole MFC library for a single (or several) dialog boxes seemed like overkill for me.
Max
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