After dealing with a prospective client who just does understand the
complexity of Windows file systems, I figured I would ask folks on this
list, what do you do when you have a customer or manager who says “It can’t
be that hard”.
We all get some bozo’s I know of one person who could not understand why the
Rajeev Nagar book was anything more than the four chapters in section three
on writing a driver. The last I knew they thought they could knock of a
Windows file system in a few weeks.
So my question is what do you tell these people?
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
http://www.windrvr.com
If they are otherwise unmoveable and the contract would not likely be
profitable, I used to do the following, with the knowledge that it was
well within the range of possibility that this would piss someone off
enough that I would lose the contract. That being said, I only did this
for contracts that would not be worth the time/trouble/income under
their terms.
-
On your own, request a bid for their project (minus NDA stuff, of
course) from some other vendor with a big name, but one that will give
you a ballpark estimate (time only) for a reasonable fee.
-
Find an example of some catastrophic software failure in the area
which you are bidding. I have no significant FS experience, but I
always found that federal government projects rarely if ever fail to
disappoint in this area. They almost without fail get talked in to very
bad ideas by get convinced that they’re problems are terribly unique, so
much so that what they require is a new unproven technology, language or
tool. You can guess how these turn out. In any case, this is probably
going to be helpful to you, because your potential client will probably
mumble something about how the time and cost can be reduced using some
silly technology that he or she read about briefly.
-
Request a meeting to settle this issues at hand, inviting either
(1) the supervisor of the dude who thinks this stuff is easy, or (2) as
many people as you possibly can in lieu or in addition to (1). If (1),
the supervisor needs to be an administrator, not an tech. At the
meeting, explain that you differ on estimations of the time/complexity.
Communicate the idea that you will be interested in hearing about the
specific experience(s) in their past that support their conclusion that
you are overstating the difficulty cost, et. c. Present your case,
first without using the above. Mention that you have what is generally
contained in (1) and (2) for them to review if they wish, and then turn
it over to them. Most people who do not know what they are talking
about, in my experience, are very unlikely to make statements for which
they will be held accountable in the presence of a presentation such as
this, with witnesses. Further, it is quite possible that those who
insist that it can’t be that difficult might be doing do only because
they are be told to do so by someone higher. In either case, I find
that most suddenly see the light, once they see that this problem is
going to be theirs (after you produce (1), getting other bids seems much
less promising).
This is, to be sure, not the nicest behavior, but there is, as far as I
know, no nice way of telling a client they have no idea of what they are
talking about.
MM
>> xxxxx@acm.org 2006-08-21 17:03 >>>
After dealing with a prospective client who just does understand the
complexity of Windows file systems, I figured I would ask folks on this
list, what do you do when you have a customer or manager who says “It
can’t
be that hard”.
We all get some bozo’s I know of one person who could not understand
why the
Rajeev Nagar book was anything more than the four chapters in section
three
on writing a driver. The last I knew they thought they could knock of
a
Windows file system in a few weeks.
So my question is what do you tell these people?
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
http://www.windrvr.com
Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17
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Actual replies I’ve given to prospective clients who said “It can’t be that hard”
Reply #1:
“I know you think that, and I know it’s probably difficult to believe. But, TRUST me on this. We’ve been doing this for a living, every day, for the last twelve years. We’ve done LOTS of project like yours. The road is LITTERED with the bodies of the developers who have said ‘it can’t be that hard’ and ‘if I can just fix this one last problem everything will work fine’ in the Windows file systems space. Many of them wind up coming back to have us do their project, after first expending 2 or 3 years trying to do a Windows File System project themselves that ‘can’t be that hard’. That’s because when they say that, they don’t know what they don’t know. Believe it: It IS as complex as I say it is.”
Reply #2:
“OK. Well, I wish you all the best. Have a nice day.”
P
Martin O’Brien wrote:
This is, to be sure, not the nicest behavior, but there is, as far as I
know, no nice way of telling a client they have no idea of what they are
talking about.
I think my attitude if they really wouldn’t move would be “I’m sorry you
feel that way” and walk away from the contract as soon as possible,
preferably in the aforementioned meeting with his boss.
If you’re on a contract where you’re fighting the client who believes
you can write drivers for half the money then any problems - and there
will be, when the budget runs out and the deadlines loom - automatically
become your fault, no matter how much you warned them originally.
I’ve seen it happen… It’s not worth it.
Tony
If you really need the job, take it and plan on retiring after it fails
unless you can handle the ‘failure’ being grafted on to you like a third
eye.
“Tony Hoyle” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntfsd…
> Martin O’Brien wrote:
>> This is, to be sure, not the nicest behavior, but there is, as far as I
>> know, no nice way of telling a client they have no idea of what they are
>> talking about.
>
> I think my attitude if they really wouldn’t move would be “I’m sorry you
> feel that way” and walk away from the contract as soon as possible,
> preferably in the aforementioned meeting with his boss.
>
> If you’re on a contract where you’re fighting the client who believes you
> can write drivers for half the money then any problems - and there will
> be, when the budget runs out and the deadlines loom - automatically become
> your fault, no matter how much you warned them originally.
> I’ve seen it happen… It’s not worth it.
>
> Tony
>
>
I would say if your prospective client is gripping’ about cost, there
are old threads in the archive a year+ old
that discuss the time it takes to develop certain types of drivers
created by people other than yourself.
Refer them to those links, and then calculate the weeks/hours you think
it would take to develop such a driver
and divide that into what they want too pay. Once the math is done, it
should be clear to them that they are asking you
to work for sub-standard wages.
If that doesn’t work, direct them too me. I’ll take their money, botch
the job, and they’ll come crawling back
too you. We both with then…
As I begin to grow older, I seem too have increasing realstate on my
forehead for the third eye Tony H mentioned
being ‘grafted’ on.
m.
Don Burn wrote:
After dealing with a prospective client who just does understand the
complexity of Windows file systems, I figured I would ask folks on this
list, what do you do when you have a customer or manager who says “It can’t
be that hard”.
We all get some bozo’s I know of one person who could not understand why the
Rajeev Nagar book was anything more than the four chapters in section three
on writing a driver. The last I knew they thought they could knock of a
Windows file system in a few weeks.
So my question is what do you tell these people?