Hi,
I am not sure if this is good place to ask this question but please can
someone points me if there are any groups available where I can find linux
kernel discussions like ntdev.
Regards,
Ravish
>…if there are any groups available where I can find linux kernel discussions like ntdev.
NGs like NTDEV don’t seem to exist in the Linux world - AFAIK,NTDEV is a truly uniqueue
NG where some “would-be kernel guru” may ask people about the basics of C laguage, about the ways of finding Linux kernel NGs (and sometimes even about the ways of renaming files in Windows Explorer), do it in broken English…and eventually get help under the pretext that “we were all inexperienced at some point”. I would not advise you to try it at linux-kernel mailing list. I just wonder what Linus would say if you tell him “my kernel not build. please guide me on it”…
In any case, I would suggest checking the link below
Anton Bassov
While I will submit that it is not a pretext that we were all young and na?ve at some point, I have laughed more at your acidic analysis this time than in a long time at the usual garbage.
In case it is of interest, I spend the majority of my day today fixing a broken release caused by a junior (who specifically I have great respect for, but is young and makes mistakes) but as you know someone must fix things before Monday and production resumes
Anyways I am glad that you have brightened an otherwise horrible day Anton
Sent from Mailhttps: for Windows 10
From: xxxxx@hotmail.commailto:xxxxx
Sent: May 14, 2016 3:38 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest Listmailto:xxxxx
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Linux Kernel Groups
>…if there are any groups available where I can find linux kernel discussions like ntdev.
NGs like NTDEV don’t seem to exist in the Linux world - AFAIK,NTDEV is a truly uniqueue
NG where some “would-be kernel guru” may ask people about the basics of C laguage, about the ways of finding Linux kernel NGs (and sometimes even about the ways of renaming files in Windows Explorer), do it in broken English…and eventually get help under the pretext that “we were all inexperienced at some point”. I would not advise you to try it at linux-kernel mailing list. I just wonder what Linus would say if you tell him “my kernel not build. please guide me on it”…
In any case, I would suggest checking the link below
http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Anton Bassov
—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list online at: http:
MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and software drivers!
Details at http:
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http:</http:></http:></http:></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx></https:>
Hi Anton,
Thanks for the link , I was expecting reply from you.
Thanks!
On May 15, 2016 01:09, wrote:
> >…if there are any groups available where I can find linux kernel
> discussions like ntdev.
>
> NGs like NTDEV don’t seem to exist in the Linux world - AFAIK,NTDEV is a
> truly uniqueue
> NG where some “would-be kernel guru” may ask people about the basics of C
> laguage, about the ways of finding Linux kernel NGs (and sometimes even
> about the ways of renaming files in Windows Explorer), do it in broken
> English…and eventually get help under the pretext that “we were all
> inexperienced at some point”. I would not advise you to try it at
> linux-kernel mailing list. I just wonder what Linus would say if you tell
> him “my kernel not build. please guide me on it”…
>
> In any case, I would suggest checking the link below
>
> http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
>
>
> Anton Bassov
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list online at: <
> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
>
> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
> software drivers!
> Details at http:
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer>
></http:>
> I have laughed more at your acidic analysis this time than in a long time at the usual garbage.
Thanks a lot for the “compliment”…
What about my “MSFT Sycophant’s International Anthem” (BTW, the one that got me on moderation list last year)??? What about complying with Peter’s request to insult “The Official Dog of OSR”??? What about a discussion of “Colorado Beetles and Reebons” with Max??? The list goes on and on.
Don’t you find all these “masterpieces” funny???
Anton Bassov
>Thanks for the link ,
Well, in your place I would rather say “Thanks for the warning”…
Beware - apart from other thigs, Linus is known not only for his “opinions” but for the way he tends to express them as well…
Anton Bassov
A good place to start is the FAQ page for the Linux Kernel Mailing List
(lkml): http://www.tux.org/lkml/
On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:58 PM Ravish Yadav
wrote:
> Hi Anton,
>
> Thanks for the link , I was expecting reply from you.
>
> Thanks!
> On May 15, 2016 01:09, wrote:
>
>> >…if there are any groups available where I can find linux kernel
>> discussions like ntdev.
>>
>> NGs like NTDEV don’t seem to exist in the Linux world - AFAIK,NTDEV is a
>> truly uniqueue
>> NG where some “would-be kernel guru” may ask people about the basics of C
>> laguage, about the ways of finding Linux kernel NGs (and sometimes even
>> about the ways of renaming files in Windows Explorer), do it in broken
>> English…and eventually get help under the pretext that “we were all
>> inexperienced at some point”. I would not advise you to try it at
>> linux-kernel mailing list. I just wonder what Linus would say if you tell
>> him “my kernel not build. please guide me on it”…
>>
>> In any case, I would suggest checking the link below
>>
>> http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>>
>>
>>
>> Anton Bassov
>>
>>
>>
>> —
>> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>>
>> Visit the list online at: <
>> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
>>
>> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
>> software drivers!
>> Details at http:
>>
>> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
>> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer>
>>
> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list online at: MONTHLY seminars
> on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and software drivers!
> Details at To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at</http:>
On 05/14/2016 09:18 AM, Ravish Yadav wrote:
I am not sure if this is good place to ask this question but please can someone points me if there are any groups available where I can find linux kernel discussions like ntdev.
mailing list subscription here: http://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
and/or
on irc @ #kernelnewbies
Thanks Peter for the information!
On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Peter Hurley
wrote:
> On 05/14/2016 09:18 AM, Ravish Yadav wrote:
> > I am not sure if this is good place to ask this question but please can
> someone points me if there are any groups available where I can find linux
> kernel discussions like ntdev.
>
> kernelnewbies.org
>
> mailing list subscription here:
> http://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
> and/or
> on irc @ #kernelnewbies
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list online at: <
> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
>
> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
> software drivers!
> Details at http:
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer>
></http:>
On 05/14/2016 06:18 PM, Ravish Yadav wrote:
I am not sure if this is good place to ask this question but please
can someone points me if there are any groups available where I can
find linux kernel discussions like ntdev.
It’s Linux, so there is not one such forum but there are many, with
varying quality. I am no forum poster, but occasionally you find
yourself googling and reading helpful posts of others.
kernelnewbies.org has already been mentioned. Another one I remember is
www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-kernel-70/. The Linux Kernel
Mailing List (LKML) is definitely *no* newbie forum - it’s where kernel
development is done. Newbie questions are mostly ignored there; nice
people (kernel developers aren’t the nicest but it is getting better)
will tell you that this is not the right place, others will flame you to
death (these are far away from kernel development, it’s the usual share
of “inferior personnel” present in every mailinglist).
Other than that, let me briefly describe you my personal view of how you
gain experience in Linux kernel development. I’m mostly doing driver
work, and I suppose this is what you’re after.
** Books
First, read a good book. There is “Linux Device Drivers, 3rd Edition”
(LDD3 for short) by Jonathan Corbet. Available as PDF
(lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/). Very well written in the sense that it is fun to
read. It is far out of date, but it definitely gives you a big picture
(I like big pictures). You won’t read it cover to cover but I suggest
you don’t skip “Concurrency and Race Conditions” and “Interrupt Handling”.
Another is “Linux Kernel Development” by Robert Love. Equally well
written, but more about the core kernel than about drivers.
** Documentation
There is no formal documentation (like MSDN) of the Linux kernel. There
is plenty of up to date documentation in the kernel source itself, see
for example here:
www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/
For example, if you’re going to be doing DMA, these are a must-read:
www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/DMA-API-HOWTO.txt
www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/DMA-API.txt
Jonathan Corbet (the LDD3 author) maintains lwn.net; if your search has
hits from there, I suggest you give them a read. Good stuff; for example:
The chained scatterlist API: lwn.net/Articles/256368/
Software interrupts and realtime: https://lwn.net/Articles/520076/
(many more)
** Kernel Source
Whenever you feel you need examples, take yourself time and read kernel
source. In the drivers/ subdirectory of the kernel source you’ll find
more examples than you can cope with. Choosing the right one is a
problem of course.
** Out of Date Documentation
There’s plenty of it. For example, LDD3 was published in 2005. Many
things have changed since; here are two highlights from my personal
experience.
“Deferred work”: Tasklets and SoftIRQ are mechanisms which roughly match
“DPC” in Windows. One does not want to use these to defer work away from
the hard interrupt (DIRQL). Use workqueues instead (Workitems in
Windows). Maybe better because more appropriate, declare to the kernel
that you want your interrupt service routine called in a dedicated
thread (request_threaded_irq()). The interrupt thread will show up in
the process list - this means that you can reprioritize your interrupt
if you have realtime demands.
“Mutexes”: LDD3 tells you to use binary semaphores. Nowadays there are
real mutexes, lwn.net/Articles/167034/. Better to use these instead;
priority inheritance is fully supported.
Hope this helps,
Joerg
If you like big pictures, how come that you omitted “Understanding Linux Kernel” by Bovet and Cesati??? Let’ face it - when it comes to pig pictures, this book seems to be the best possible candidate. Certainly, it is somewhat outdated, even in its Third Edition (some parts of it, like for example, the one that describes the scheduler, have been obsolete for almost a decade), but still I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the general principles and architecture of Linux kernel…
Anton Bassov
On 05/16/2016 02:41 PM, xxxxx@hotmail.com wrote:
If you like big pictures, how come that you omitted “Understanding
Linux Kernel” by Bovet and Cesati???
I have it on my shelf, but it’s no easy reading so I omitted it. Good
nontheless, definitely.
Joerg
> I have it on my shelf, but it’s no easy reading so I omitted it.
Fair enough…
In fact, I think it is a good idea to have it not on a bookshelf but on your computer so that you can combine it with browsing the sources at,say, http://lxr.free-electrons.com/. When you read it separately from the sources it is, indeed, probably not the easiest read, because it goes into too many implementation details that are not so easy to grasp without actually seeing the entire code. However, if you combine it with reading the sources it is simply of indispensable help…
Anton Bassov