Hey OSR people,
Is there any expected date to the publication of WDF book?
Cheers,
Fernando.
This summer.
Peter
OSR
If you can’t wait for this summer, you can get the MS Press book this
month, it is available 4/25 ;),
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Drivers-Windows-Driver-Foundation/dp/07
35623740/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7431573-2042518?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175714
326&sr=1-1
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
This summer.
Peter
OSR
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Come on Doron, any good developer is going to want both books. From
reviewing the MS Press book I can say it is excellent, but in the dozen
years I have dealt with OSR, they have always added something extra to the
information Microsoft has provided.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply
“Doron Holan” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
If you can’t wait for this summer, you can get the MS Press book this
month, it is available 4/25 ;),
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Drivers-Windows-Driver-Foundation/dp/07
35623740/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7431573-2042518?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175714
326&sr=1-1
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
This summer.
Peter
OSR
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I never said he should not get both, I am just pointing that
a) there is another book available other then the OSR book
b) this other book has a concrete release date
Nor am I saying that one is better than the other. I haven’t seen any
copy from the OSR book to even begin to make a judgement. I think it is
great that there are 2 books on WDF, the more the merrier.
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:31 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
Come on Doron, any good developer is going to want both books. From
reviewing the MS Press book I can say it is excellent, but in the dozen
years I have dealt with OSR, they have always added something extra to
the
information Microsoft has provided.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply
“Doron Holan” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
If you can’t wait for this summer, you can get the MS Press book this
month, it is available 4/25 ;),
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Drivers-Windows-Driver-Foundation/dp/07
35623740/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7431573-2042518?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175714
326&sr=1-1
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
This summer.
Peter
OSR
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Gentlemen, while we’re on the subject of 2 books, I have a coworker who
wants to learn drivers. He asked me how to start, and I said WDF. In
any case, as there are no books as of yet and because he hasn’t really
dealt with anything like this before (his background is EE, in
particular firmware), he wants to take a class. However, both OSR and
the one given by either Brent Rector or Joeseph Newbcomer have cancelled
their next sessions due to lack of enrollment. Do either of you have
any suggestions for him, because I have no knowledge about any of these
classes and, truth be told, as I spend almost all of my time doing
internal research and development that generally does not have much to
do with a dedicated physical device, I haven’t crossed paths with WDF
much yet, although the feedback certainly sounds really excellent (the
only bad thing I’ve heard has to do with installation).
I apologize for the direct e-mail, but I greatly respect both of your
opinions, and I really didn’t want to be responsible for the "Two Rings
Good, Four Rings Bad"ish thread that posting this one would almost
certainly start (that I have played my part in TRGFRB,
notwithstanding).
Thanks,
mm
>> xxxxx@microsoft.com 2007-04-04 16:04 >>>
I never said he should not get both, I am just pointing that
a) there is another book available other then the OSR book
b) this other book has a concrete release date
Nor am I saying that one is better than the other. I haven’t seen any
copy from the OSR book to even begin to make a judgement. I think it
is
great that there are 2 books on WDF, the more the merrier.
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:31 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
Come on Doron, any good developer is going to want both books. From
reviewing the MS Press book I can say it is excellent, but in the dozen
years I have dealt with OSR, they have always added something extra to
the
information Microsoft has provided.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply
“Doron Holan” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
If you can’t wait for this summer, you can get the MS Press book this
month, it is available 4/25 ;),
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Drivers-Windows-Driver-Foundation/dp/07
35623740/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7431573-2042518?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175714
326&sr=1-1
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
This summer.
Peter
OSR
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Trust us Don - we want as many good books about WDF as possible. Doron is simply pointing out that you can get one before summer if you want to get started sooner.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:31 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
Come on Doron, any good developer is going to want both books. From
reviewing the MS Press book I can say it is excellent, but in the dozen
years I have dealt with OSR, they have always added something extra to the
information Microsoft has provided.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply
“Doron Holan” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
If you can’t wait for this summer, you can get the MS Press book this
month, it is available 4/25 ;),
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Drivers-Windows-Driver-Foundation/dp/07
35623740/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7431573-2042518?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175714
326&sr=1-1
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
This summer.
Peter
OSR
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> Gentlemen, while we’re on the subject of 2 books, I have a coworker who
wants to learn drivers. He asked me how to start, and I said WDF.
Starting with Walter Oney’s book and then going to WDF is a good idea.
Like USER32 and MFC - starting with, say, Petzold on Win16 window manager APIs
and then moving to MFC was a good idea in, say, 1993-5.
–
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
That’s odd… We have a five-day driver lab seminar running right now, this week, in Waltham MA (USA). I believe it’s got 20+ people, actually.
Absent taking a seminar, I agree with Max’s suggestion.
Peter
OSR
Hi Peter
I’d appreciate your comments: When I had to develop a driver last year I
wanted to wait for WDF but in the end had to do it with ordinary DDK as WDF
wasn’t available when I started.
That meant I had to learn the basic DDK tricks, i.e. raw kernel programming.
The question is whether anyone starting now can start with WDF without
needing to know the detail underneath it, or if they’ll still need to know
how to write a non WDF driver.
It’s a question about whether it’s really:
(a) like MFC, which although useful, it turned out (when I learnt to program
Windows apps inthe 90’s) that you still had to know what was going on
underneath, or
(b) like C etc, which successfully completely wraps the machine underneath
so you don’t need to know how it works at assembler level (except when the
compiler generates garbage code which is thankfully rare these days).
So in other words, should someone new wait for the WDF books we hear are
almost ready, or is Oney still a pre-requisite.
Thanks for you insight on this
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxx@osr.com
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:48 AM
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
That’s odd… We have a five-day driver lab seminar running right now, this
week, in Waltham MA (USA). I believe it’s got 20+ people, actually.
Absent taking a seminar, I agree with Max’s suggestion.
Peter
OSR
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I think the question is what you want to be. Do you want to be a coder that
can put together a decent driver, if it fits within the framework, or do you
want to be an expert in how to do drivers that have to extend beyond the
sandbox of the framework? MFC is great for dialog box apps used for
testing, but if you want to create an app that has a modal dialog box with a
list control that needs to be able to resize while the dialog is resized it
is a lot of work and understanding how it works becomes necessary.
“Mike Kemp” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Hi Peter
>
> I’d appreciate your comments: When I had to develop a driver last year I
> wanted to wait for WDF but in the end had to do it with ordinary DDK as
> WDF wasn’t available when I started.
>
> That meant I had to learn the basic DDK tricks, i.e. raw kernel
> programming.
>
> The question is whether anyone starting now can start with WDF without
> needing to know the detail underneath it, or if they’ll still need to know
> how to write a non WDF driver.
>
> It’s a question about whether it’s really:
>
> (a) like MFC, which although useful, it turned out (when I learnt to
> program Windows apps inthe 90’s) that you still had to know what was going
> on underneath, or
>
> (b) like C etc, which successfully completely wraps the machine underneath
> so you don’t need to know how it works at assembler level (except when the
> compiler generates garbage code which is thankfully rare these days).
>
> So in other words, should someone new wait for the WDF books we hear are
> almost ready, or is Oney still a pre-requisite.
>
> Thanks for you insight on this
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxx@osr.com
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:48 AM
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
>
>
>
>
> That’s odd… We have a five-day driver lab seminar running right now,
> this week, in Waltham MA (USA). I believe it’s got 20+ people, actually.
>
>
>
> Absent taking a seminar, I agree with Max’s suggestion.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
“Mike Kemp” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Hi Peter
>
> I’d appreciate your comments: When I had to develop a driver last year I
> wanted to wait for WDF but in the end had to do it with ordinary DDK as
> WDF wasn’t available when I started.
>
> That meant I had to learn the basic DDK tricks, i.e. raw kernel
> programming.
>
> The question is whether anyone starting now can start with WDF without
> needing to know the detail underneath it, or if they’ll still need to
> know how to write a non WDF driver.
>
> It’s a question about whether it’s really:
>
> (a) like MFC, which although useful, it turned out (when I learnt to
> program Windows apps inthe 90’s) that you still had to know what was
> going on underneath, or
>
> (b) like C etc, which successfully completely wraps the machine
> underneath so you don’t need to know how it works at assembler level
> (except when the compiler generates garbage code which is thankfully rare
> these days).
>
> So in other words, should someone new wait for the WDF books we hear are
> almost ready, or is Oney still a pre-requisite.
>
> Thanks for you insight on this
>
> Mike
Mike,
My view is the answer is a little of both. It is like MFC in that you
can dive under it and for many things what you are seeing is the underlying
model, for instance you will still see IRP’s, but how you access them and
queue them is different.
Where it is like C is that PnP and Power which used to be this horrid
state machine you needed to create, typically one would start with an
existing one and then try to adapt it to the current machine and “fix it”,
has been abstracted to a well designed set of calls. IIRC the WDK team
found that a complete state machine for this was on the order of 300
states, but the typical support for PnP and Power in a KMDF driver is
roughly half a dozen short routines or less.
I have a lot of experience with legacy and WDM drivers, but knowing
the pain of PnP/Power I will not do another if at all possible even though
I still struggle with learning / getting used to the new model. Of course
maybe I should not call it the new model, since Microsoft started asking
for input from developers at WinHEC 5 years ago this month.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply
That’s a really good question. And one that we’ve been struggling with mightily here at OSR, as we put the finishing touches on our WDF seminar.
After working with KMDF for a number of years now, and puzzling over this exact question, here’s what I’ve come to believe:
IF you just need to write a simple driver to “get your device working” and that driver isn’t a significant part of the added value your company provides, then you can typically just learn WDF (and a few, shallow, WDM concepts) and be done with it. There are a few other caveats here: The device needs to be simple, your driver needs to follow a well-established programming pattern, there needs to be a good WDF sample for you to start with, and you better not need to do too much in-depth debugging.
For many folks, who write application code most of the time and became the company’s driver dev “cuz somebody had to do it” – and for many company’s that view writing a driver for their device as “just another step in getting their device to market” – knowing and using WDF and just WDF will be enough.
On the other hand, departing from the above constraints almost certainly requires that you have good WDM knoweldge. For example, any serious debugging of a KMDF driver often requires a strong working knowledge of WDM – going JUST to the WDF layer won’t always get you the answers you need. And, while there are “advanced” things one can do in KMDF, they almost always require a knowledge of what’s going on underneath in the I/O subsystem… and that’s WDM.
Similarly, if the driver you’re writing is a key and valuable part of the product (it does lots of cool processing, it’s performance is critical, etc) you’re almost certainly going to need to understand the underlying WDM concepts to get the most out of KMDF.
Finally, it’s important to note that “needing to know WDM concepts” is not at all the same as “having to use WDM to write your driver.” I think I know WDM reasonably well by now, but I seriously believe (or should I say hope) that I’ve written my last WDM driver. Sure, I may drop down into IRP handling or pre-processing requests… but that’s a long friggin’ way from having to write your own power management code.
Hope that answers your question,
Peter
OSR
The approach the WHDC team took when writing their book (with some suggestions from WDF development) was that there should be some introductory material to help new developers understand what their driver was interacting with and how it fit into the system.
The goal isn’t to try and get a new developer to understand WDM - Walter demonstrated that even a whole book isn’t enough to do that 
- but to explain some of the moving parts they need to interact with & give them enough to get started.
Hopefully we found a happy medium.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:20 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
That’s a really good question. And one that we’ve been struggling with mightily here at OSR, as we put the finishing touches on our WDF seminar.
After working with KMDF for a number of years now, and puzzling over this exact question, here’s what I’ve come to believe:
IF you just need to write a simple driver to “get your device working” and that driver isn’t a significant part of the added value your company provides, then you can typically just learn WDF (and a few, shallow, WDM concepts) and be done with it. There are a few other caveats here: The device needs to be simple, your driver needs to follow a well-established programming pattern, there needs to be a good WDF sample for you to start with, and you better not need to do too much in-depth debugging.
For many folks, who write application code most of the time and became the company’s driver dev “cuz somebody had to do it” – and for many company’s that view writing a driver for their device as “just another step in getting their device to market” – knowing and using WDF and just WDF will be enough.
On the other hand, departing from the above constraints almost certainly requires that you have good WDM knoweldge. For example, any serious debugging of a KMDF driver often requires a strong working knowledge of WDM – going JUST to the WDF layer won’t always get you the answers you need. And, while there are “advanced” things one can do in KMDF, they almost always require a knowledge of what’s going on underneath in the I/O subsystem… and that’s WDM.
Similarly, if the driver you’re writing is a key and valuable part of the product (it does lots of cool processing, it’s performance is critical, etc) you’re almost certainly going to need to understand the underlying WDM concepts to get the most out of KMDF.
Finally, it’s important to note that “needing to know WDM concepts” is not at all the same as “having to use WDM to write your driver.” I think I know WDM reasonably well by now, but I seriously believe (or should I say hope) that I’ve written my last WDM driver. Sure, I may drop down into IRP handling or pre-processing requests… but that’s a long friggin’ way from having to write your own power management code.
Hope that answers your question,
Peter
OSR
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Mike Kemp wrote:
So in other words, should someone new wait for the WDF books
we hear are almost ready, or is Oney still a pre-requisite.
I’ll try to give you one other viewpoint on your question: I think whether you have control over the application(s) and device(s) also makes a big difference.
For example, for most of the WDF drivers I’ve developed, I’ve been replacing WDM drivers that talk to tools and devices that are (in some cases) several years old. As a result, most of my grief so far (where I needed to drop down to WDM) has actually come from needing to support workarounds for application/tool and device bugs.
Conversely, if you are developing a new device and tools from scratch, KMDF will probably be almost perfect for you.
Thanks Peter (et al), as you gathered, I hoped this would help many of the
people newer than me who visit this site.
I indeed fall into the category of not
being a willing driver writer but just needing a basic (but performance
critical) driver for XP. I wanted to use WDF but it was not out when I did
the early experiments and I judged it would be quickest just to tidy up that
version. Since I also doubt that a good example (for a 1394 driver) is yet
available it sounds from what you say that that was the right decision,
despite the fact that like most WDM drivers I expect the power stuff is
only adequate.
I’ve since recommended that the client starts full time maintenance (not
with me) of drivers for all the new flavour Windows OSes and seriously
considers a WDF rewrite.
I also now feel empowered by my smattering of kernel knowledge as I now know
what you can do and roughly how hard it is; this is vital to future projects
where I expect just to set the realistic goals rather than actually
programming it!
(Maybe all senior management should have to write at least one driver!)
BTW the Mac OSX version could all be done in user space, so I hope one day
UMDF delivers the same power!
atb, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxx@osr.com
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:20 PM
Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
That’s a really good question. And one that we’ve been struggling with
mightily here at OSR, as we put the finishing touches on our WDF seminar.
After working with KMDF for a number of years now, and puzzling over this
exact question, here’s what I’ve come to believe:
IF you just need to write a simple driver to “get your device working” and
that driver isn’t a significant part of the added value your company
provides, then you can typically just learn WDF (and a few, shallow, WDM
concepts) and be done with it. There are a few other caveats here: The
device needs to be simple, your driver needs to follow a well-established
programming pattern, there needs to be a good WDF sample for you to start
with, and you better not need to do too much in-depth debugging.
For many folks, who write application code most of the time and became the
company’s driver dev “cuz somebody had to do it” – and for many company’s
that view writing a driver for their device as “just another step in getting
their device to market” – knowing and using WDF and just WDF will be
enough.
On the other hand, departing from the above constraints almost certainly
requires that you have good WDM knoweldge. For example, any serious
debugging of a KMDF driver often requires a strong working knowledge of
WDM – going JUST to the WDF layer won’t always get you the answers you
need. And, while there are “advanced” things one can do in KMDF, they
almost always require a knowledge of what’s going on underneath in the I/O
subsystem… and that’s WDM.
Similarly, if the driver you’re writing is a key and valuable part of the
product (it does lots of cool processing, it’s performance is critical, etc)
you’re almost certainly going to need to understand the underlying WDM
concepts to get the most out of KMDF.
Finally, it’s important to note that “needing to know WDM concepts” is not
at all the same as “having to use WDM to write your driver.” I think I know
WDM reasonably well by now, but I seriously believe (or should I say hope)
that I’ve written my last WDM driver. Sure, I may drop down into IRP
handling or pre-processing requests… but that’s a long friggin’ way from
having to write your own power management code.
Hope that answers your question,
Peter
OSR
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I agree with all of this, except for one thing. If you’re hoping for just
one book that will make it possible to understand what murky depths lie
below KMDF, you’re better off buying Solomon and Russinovich instead of
Oney. With that said, if I were starting off without the mental battle
scars, I would buy both.
- Jake Oshins
“Mike Kemp” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Hi Peter
>
> I’d appreciate your comments: When I had to develop a driver last year I
> wanted to wait for WDF but in the end had to do it with ordinary DDK as
> WDF wasn’t available when I started.
>
> That meant I had to learn the basic DDK tricks, i.e. raw kernel
> programming.
>
> The question is whether anyone starting now can start with WDF without
> needing to know the detail underneath it, or if they’ll still need to know
> how to write a non WDF driver.
>
> It’s a question about whether it’s really:
>
> (a) like MFC, which although useful, it turned out (when I learnt to
> program Windows apps inthe 90’s) that you still had to know what was going
> on underneath, or
>
> (b) like C etc, which successfully completely wraps the machine underneath
> so you don’t need to know how it works at assembler level (except when the
> compiler generates garbage code which is thankfully rare these days).
>
> So in other words, should someone new wait for the WDF books we hear are
> almost ready, or is Oney still a pre-requisite.
>
> Thanks for you insight on this
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxx@osr.com
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:48 AM
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] How is WDF book work?
>
>
>
>
> That’s odd… We have a five-day driver lab seminar running right now,
> this week, in Waltham MA (USA). I believe it’s got 20+ people, actually.
>
>
>
> Absent taking a seminar, I agree with Max’s suggestion.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
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>
> I agree with all of this, except for one thing. If you’re hoping for just
one book that will make it possible to understand what murky depths lie
below KMDF, you’re better off buying Solomon and Russinovich instead of
Oney. With that said, if I were starting off without the mental battle
scars, I would buy both.
Good idea.
Solomon/Russinovich’s is the theoretic book, while Walter’s is the practical
one. It is a good idea to read both, but IMHO Walter’s one is of more interest
for practical software developer.
–
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
I may turn Mike’s question (“Should a new driver dev learn WDM or WDF?”) into an article for The NT Insider…
No doubt: The Solomon/Russinovich book (or equivalent knowledge) is pre-requisite for doing *any* kernel-mode work on Windows. I own copies of every edition. Having said that, to me this book reads more like “Windows internals for Win32 programmers” and I hope someday we’ll see a *really detailed* book on Windows internals, complete with data structures.
Peter
OSR