For being FS Developer...

Kyung-min_Go · September 9, 2010, 7:41am

Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…

Is it true?

I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am reading Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand those mechanism, flow…

Uhm… I want to ask you guys.

How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?

I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the end-_-;;;

Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.

It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.

And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?

Kyung-min_Go · September 9, 2010, 7:53am

Before you read, I am not good at english-_- because I’m not american…

OSR_Community_User · September 9, 2010, 8:36am

On 9/9/2010 5:40 AM, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:

Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…

Yes, plan on a year for someone who knows what they are doing. If you
are just beginning, plan on 6 months or more to gain an understanding of
the internals of Windows.

I recommend taking a class such as the OSR classe, these will give you a
solid understanding of the internals of Windows.

Pete

–
Kernel Drivers
Windows File System and Device Driver Consulting
www.KernelDrivers.com
866.263.9295

Don_Burn_1 · September 9, 2010, 8:52am

File systems are hard, this is true of other OS’es as well as Windows.
If this is a commercial product wanting a file system seriously consider
the OSR File System Development Kit http://www.osr.com/fsdk.html it will
save a ton of time and aggravation, but it is not cheap.

If you are an experienced developer (but not Windows file systems)
assume at least 18 months to do anything significant in this area. Also
be aware that file system filters can be as hard or harder than a full
file system.

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“xxxxx@gmail.com” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntfsd:

> Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…
>
> Is it true?
>
> I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am reading Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand those mechanism, flow…
>
> Uhm… I want to ask you guys.
>
> How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?
>
> I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the end-_-;;;
>
> Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.
>
> It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.
>
> And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?

mm1 · September 9, 2010, 9:07am

But saved time + saved aggravation can also == saved money.

mm

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:51 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntfsd] For being FS Developer…

File systems are hard, this is true of other OS’es as well as Windows.
If this is a commercial product wanting a file system seriously consider the
OSR File System Development Kit http://www.osr.com/fsdk.html it will save a
ton of time and aggravation, but it is not cheap.

If you are an experienced developer (but not Windows file systems) assume at
least 18 months to do anything significant in this area. Also be aware that
file system filters can be as hard or harder than a full file system.

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“xxxxx@gmail.com” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntfsd:

> Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system
freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…
>
> Is it true?
>
> I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am reading
Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand those mechanism,
flow…
>
> Uhm… I want to ask you guys.
>
> How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now
perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?
>
> I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the
> end-_-;;;
>
> Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.
>
> It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.
>
> And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?

—
NTFSD is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars (including our new fs
mini-filter seminar) visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

OSR_Community_User · September 9, 2010, 9:12am

When I joined OSR (1994 or so) my first job was to implement a MAC HFS file system on windows. I knew nothing about HFS and nothing about file systems, but I did know NT Drivers. Since OSR had the FSDK, I used that and had a alpha version of the file system in 3 months and a beta/final version of the FS in 6 months. Now realize that I work for OSR so I had access to the best resources in the business (Peter and Tony), but that being said, I didn’t have to know how to interact with the cache manager or worry about distinguish between cached, noncached, and paging I/O.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents…

Mark Cariddi
OSR Technical Fellha

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:51 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntfsd] For being FS Developer…

File systems are hard, this is true of other OS’es as well as Windows.
If this is a commercial product wanting a file system seriously consider the OSR File System Development Kit http://www.osr.com/fsdk.html it will save a ton of time and aggravation, but it is not cheap.

If you are an experienced developer (but not Windows file systems) assume at least 18 months to do anything significant in this area. Also be aware that file system filters can be as hard or harder than a full file system.

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“xxxxx@gmail.com” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntfsd:

> Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…
>
> Is it true?
>
> I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am reading Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand those mechanism, flow…
>
> Uhm… I want to ask you guys.
>
> How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?
>
> I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the
> end-_-;;;
>
> Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.
>
> It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.
>
> And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?

—
NTFSD is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars (including our new fs mini-filter seminar) visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Tracy_Camp · September 9, 2010, 9:44am

It was about a year and a half for me. I told my manager at the time I’d
rather work on low-level storage because I didn’t know anything about file
systems. He didn’t listen (he was a bit of a hopeless optimist and just
didn’t hear negative inputs, not actually a good attribute of a manager I
decided later), so just about the time they took me off the
project because I wasn’t really helping much, I finally knew what I was
doing. Another job change later, that learning has served me well.

You have the book. If you need more, attend plugfest, take a OSR semniar,
buy one of the various file system development kits.

t.

On Thu, 9 Sep 2010, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:

Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system
freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…

Is it true?

I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am
reading Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand
those mechanism, flow…

Uhm… I want to ask you guys.

How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now
perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?

I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the end-_-;;;

Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.

It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.

And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?

NTFSD is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars
(including our new fs mini-filter seminar) visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Don_Burn_1 · September 9, 2010, 9:57am

I used the OSR kit a few years after Mark. At the time we were
developing a video file system that had to support HDTV (150 MB/sec)
when the PCI bus was limited to 133MB/sec. The kit was wonderful to
work with, and we produced a file system with capabilities of FAT plus
some extra in about 9000 lines of code. The client did a presentation
to a bunch of people from Redmond and had a slide indicating that at the
time the file system was doing 90MB/sec, the Microsofties told them they
had a typo and that the slide should have been 90Mb/sec for mega-bits,
they were amazed when the customer corrected them and indicated it
actually was doing 90MB/sec on a single PCI bus.

Since then I have tried to convince customers to use the kit, they have
not with various results:

One delivered a product but it was over a year late to capture
the market
Another vendor spent 4 times what I had fixed price quoted for
the project, and got garbage they never used.
Another company insisted they did not need it, and then canceled
the estimated 4 month with the kit project when it was not fully
functional a year later.

The kit is well worth the price.

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“Mark Cariddi” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntfsd:

> When I joined OSR (1994 or so) my first job was to implement a MAC HFS file system on windows. I knew nothing about HFS and nothing about file systems, but I did know NT Drivers. Since OSR had the FSDK, I used that and had a alpha version of the file system in 3 months and a beta/final version of the FS in 6 months. Now realize that I work for OSR so I had access to the best resources in the business (Peter and Tony), but that being said, I didn’t have to know how to interact with the cache manager or worry about distinguish between cached, noncached, and paging I/O.
>
> Anyway, that is my 2 cents…
>
> Mark Cariddi
> OSR Technical Fellha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:51 AM
> To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
> Subject: Re:[ntfsd] For being FS Developer…
>
> File systems are hard, this is true of other OS’es as well as Windows.
> If this is a commercial product wanting a file system seriously consider the OSR File System Development Kit http://www.osr.com/fsdk.html it will save a ton of time and aggravation, but it is not cheap.
>
> If you are an experienced developer (but not Windows file systems) assume at least 18 months to do anything significant in this area. Also be aware that file system filters can be as hard or harder than a full file system.
>
>
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
> Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
>
>
>
> “xxxxx@gmail.com” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntfsd:
>
> > Some text book has said that if someone want to develop the file system freely, then those guy must allocate his time about a year…
> >
> > Is it true?
> >
> > I bought Windows NT File System Internals on this site. And, I am reading Create part now but, it is so so so difficult to understand those mechanism, flow…
> >
> > Uhm… I want to ask you guys.
> >
> > How did you study those who can make file system device driver from now perfectly? And, How long it takes to become that?
> >
> > I am so tired… Now I’m only three months… I can’t see the
> > end-_-;;;
> >
> > Only I can think is the Part I Through Part II.
> >
> > It is totally different with "Part I, II " and “Part III”.
> >
> > And, Can you introduce me another book to refer?
>
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars (including our new fs mini-filter seminar) visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer