Hi,
After windbg 6.3 and above a new annoying feature was introduced with the docking windows. I liked the way windows were arranged in the older versions. Is there some way to configure windbg to use windowing scheme like the old versions?
Regards,
ERAN
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows,
the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t
want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in
v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Eran Borovik
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:51 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Hi,
After windbg 6.3 and above a new annoying feature was introduced with
the docking windows. I liked the way windows were arranged in the older
versions. Is there some way to configure windbg to use windowing scheme
like the old versions?
Regards,
ERAN
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Jason,
Please consider doing something to fix this UI. I have gotten to the
point of only using the current debugger if I absolutely have to, and
instead stay locked at the old versions. Having 5 docks, and trying to find
them on desktop when I swap back to edit something is a piece of shit. It
is ironic for years Microsoft at WinHEC would show new UI’s that organized
related Windows into a single container to allow easy swapping to different
tasks, but here was a tool with that capability that you have now screwed up
so it won’t do this.
Many of the system level developers I know are holding on tight to
their VS 6.0 CD’s since they thought the VS .NET interface was a piece of
junk. This was extensively discussed in the newsgroups long before WinDBG
ever came out emulating that crap.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Jason Shay” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@windbg…
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows,
the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t
want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in
v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Jason
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking
windows, the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For
those who don’t want to think about it, there are pre-configured
setups available in v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum
possible space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS
live on top of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure
the log window. I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock? Where
do you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time?
If no, try something like this:
Window –> Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
Dock one of the source file into the new dock
Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source file
Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st
source file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new dock,
always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just minimize
that dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position in any
dock, to control where source windows go when they are opened. Again,
check out themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about this
behavior.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows,
the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t
want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in
v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum
possible space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS
live on top of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure
the log window. I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
You are currently subscribed to windbg as: xxxxx@winse.microsoft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
The “Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st source file” is
another of the examples of why this interface was not thought out. I’m
developing a new driver, typically the first file I debug contains
DriverEntry and setup, but once it is done, I can’t get rid of this except
by loosing the dock and starting over!
I’ve done debuggers professionally on and off during the last 30 years, and
the one strong rule is, “Try not to create distactions for the user,
because then the are thinking about the debugger and not the bug”. The
current WinDbg violates this rule significantly.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Jason Shay” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@windbg…
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock? Where
do you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time?
If no, try something like this:
- Window –> Open Dock
- Close all source windows.
- Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
- Dock one of the source file into the new dock
- Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source file
- Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st
source file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new dock,
always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just minimize
that dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position in any
dock, to control where source windows go when they are opened. Again,
check out themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about this
behavior.
Jason
________________________________
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows,
the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t
want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in
v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum
possible space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS
live on top of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure
the log window. I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
- Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
—
You are currently subscribed to windbg as: xxxxx@winse.microsoft.com
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Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old behaviour where I could
maximize the command window, source windows would popup up as needed but
could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont like that either
because the source windows end up maximized – it’s nice to be able to have
a few source windows show on the display and then also be able to hide them
behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock? Where do
you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time? If
no, try something like this:
Window –> Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
Dock one of the source file into the new dock
Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source file
Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st source
file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new dock,
always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just minimize that
dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position in any dock, to
control where source windows go when they are opened. Again, check out
themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about this behavior.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window lives
in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe find that
with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows, the
environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t want to
think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in v6.4 (see
themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum possible
space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS live on top
of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure the log window.
I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
Jason Shay wrote:
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock?
Where do you want your source windows to go?Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time?
If no, try something like this:
Window à Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
Dock one of the source file into the new dock
Tab-dock the 2^nd source file with the first source file
Feel free to close the 2^nd source file, but not the 1^st
source fileThe instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new
dock, always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just
minimize that dock.
And does this strike you as an improvement over the old MDI-like interface?
This is a case of adding incredible complexity and confusion to a
product in order to solve problems that did not exist. Programmers with
not enough to do. This is a kernel debugging tool, not a skinnable
video game.
–
(…)
Many of the system level developers I know are holding on tight to
their VS 6.0 CD’s since they thought the VS .NET interface was a piece of
junk. This was extensively discussed in the newsgroups long before WinDBG
ever came out emulating that crap.
Well perhaps because the developers who really love the new interface of NET
don’t talk on the newsgroups. As for myself I would say that I really but
REALLY love the new UI. I wouldn’t go back to the old VS 6.0. The new UI
helped me to be much more efficient both with debugging and code writing.
And I would say that my comments are shared by most of the fellow 50
software engineers that I am working with. Please keep the good work
Microsoft.
And beside please keep also happy those who still cling to the old way of
doing things.
Guy
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Jason Shay” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@windbg…
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window
lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe
find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows,
the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t
want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in
v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Jason
—
You are currently subscribed to windbg as: xxxxx@matrox.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
These steps only need to be done once. In addition, they seem
complicated only because they are written to be generic enough to apply
to any scenario. Here’s a simpler version of them:
1 - tab-doc a source window (b.cxx) on top of another source window
(a.cxx).
After that single step, all new source windows will be opened as
tab-docked against a.cxx.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old behaviour where I
could maximize the command window, source windows would popup up as
needed but could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont like that
either because the source windows end up maximized – it’s nice to be
able to have a few source windows show on the display and then also be
able to hide them behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
There should be an option to stop floating windows being always on
top
The description below is waaaay to complicated and counter-intuitive
to make this usable
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock?
Where do you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the
time? If no, try something like this:
Window –> Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them
float
Dock one of the source file into the new dock
Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source
file
Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the
1st source file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a
new dock, always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just
minimize that dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position
in any dock, to control where source windows go when they are opened.
Again, check out themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about
this behavior.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each
window lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style.
Fe find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking
windows, the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those
who don’t want to think about it, there are pre-configured setups
available in v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain
about the biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the
maximum possible space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will
ALWAYS live on top of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS
obscure the log window. I either have to minimize or kill the source
window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
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xxxxx@winse.microsoft.com
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xxxxx@lists.osr.com
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Maybe I havent spent the requisite amount of time on this yet, but I do most
of my debugging with dumps which means (to date at least!) I have to
customize the UI everytime I open a new dump file. I presume it must be
possible to do this once and save it as the ‘default’ workspace…
Still, I’d like source windows to be able to float and also be able to push
them behind the command window - there simply isn’t enough real estate to
use docking…
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:12 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
These steps only need to be done once. In addition, they seem complicated
only because they are written to be generic enough to apply to any scenario.
Here’s a simpler version of them:
1 - tab-doc a source window (b.cxx) on top of another source window (a.cxx).
After that single step, all new source windows will be opened as tab-docked
against a.cxx.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old behaviour where I could
maximize the command window, source windows would popup up as needed but
could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont like that either
because the source windows end up maximized – it’s nice to be able to have
a few source windows show on the display and then also be able to hide them
behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
There should be an option to stop floating windows being always on top
The description below is waaaay to complicated and counter-intuitive to
make this usable
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock? Where do
you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time? If
no, try something like this:
Window –> Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
Dock one of the source file into the new dock
Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source file
Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st source
file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new dock,
always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just minimize that
dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position in any dock, to
control where source windows go when they are opened. Again, check out
themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about this behavior.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window lives
in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe find that
with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows, the
environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t want to
think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in v6.4 (see
themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum possible
space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS live on top
of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure the log window.
I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
Simon,
Last year at WinHEC when I complained about the lack of reliability of
the new bag, the first question I was asked was “Are you using workspaces?”,
I said I was, to save windows and sometimes common breakpoints. I was
immediately informed that this was the cause of my problems and quit using
work spaces. I don’t know if this is fixed, but fellow MVP Mark Roddy who
likes the new interface advises people to avoid them.
I was laughing about Jason’s “you only have to do it once”, yes once
each time you open WinDBG, and while I have not extensively used the latest
version, the first one with the new UI needed to be closed almost the second
you forgot and used a workspace of else it would hang.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Graham, Simon” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@windbg…
> Maybe I havent spent the requisite amount of time on this yet, but I do
> most
> of my debugging with dumps which means (to date at least!) I have to
> customize the UI everytime I open a new dump file. I presume it must be
> possible to do this once and save it as the ‘default’ workspace…
>
> Still, I’d like source windows to be able to float and also be able to
> push
> them behind the command window - there simply isn’t enough real estate to
> use docking…
>
> Simon
Just run “WinDbg”. Then setup your UI how you want, and save it as the
base workspace. Other sessions will inherit the default workspace.
Again, Themes.doc has some more detail.
Pushing windows behind other windows can be done by using multiple
docks.
Jason
Click here
http:onCodeID=&JobProductCodeID=&JobTitleCodeID=&Divisions=&TargetLevels=&Key
words=&JobCode=&ManagerAlias=CLAUDIUD&Interval=10&StartDate=&EndDate=>
for job opportunities on the Windows Reliability Test team
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Maybe I havent spent the requisite amount of time on this yet, but I do
most of my debugging with dumps which means (to date at least!) I have
to customize the UI everytime I open a new dump file. I presume it must
be possible to do this once and save it as the ‘default’ workspace…
Still, I’d like source windows to be able to float and also be able to
push them behind the command window - there simply isn’t enough real
estate to use docking…
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:12 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
These steps only need to be done once. In addition, they seem
complicated only because they are written to be generic enough to apply
to any scenario. Here’s a simpler version of them:
1 - tab-doc a source window (b.cxx) on top of another source
window (a.cxx).
After that single step, all new source windows will be opened as
tab-docked against a.cxx.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old behaviour
where I could maximize the command window, source windows would popup up
as needed but could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont like
that either because the source windows end up maximized – it’s nice to
be able to have a few source windows show on the display and then also
be able to hide them behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
1. There should be an option to stop floating windows being
always on top
2. The description below is waaaay to complicated and
counter-intuitive to make this usable
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the
new dock? Where do you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all
of the time? If no, try something like this:
- Window –> Open Dock
- Close all source windows.
- Open 2 source files (or text files), and make
them float
- Dock one of the source file into the new dock
- Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first
source file
- Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but
not the 1st source file
The instruction above will cause all source files to
open in a new dock, always tab-docked. If you want source out of the
way, just minimize that dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against
any position in any dock, to control where source windows go when they
are opened. Again, check out themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more
information about this behavior.
Jason
________________________________
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example,
each window lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older
style. Fe find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and
tab-docking windows, the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible.
For those who don’t want to think about it, there are pre-configured
setups available in v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to
complain about the biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get
the maximum possible space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it
will ALWAYS live on top of the docked window. The source window will
ALWAYS obscure the log window. I either have to minimize or kill the
source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
- Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
—
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Tim Roberts wrote:
Jason Shay wrote:
> Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock?
> Where do you want your source windows to go?
>
> Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time?
> If no, try something like this:
>
> - Window à Open Dock
>
> - Close all source windows.
>
> - Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
>
> - Dock one of the source file into the new dock
>
> - Tab-dock the 2^nd source file with the first source file
>
> - Feel free to close the 2^nd source file, but not the 1^st
> source file
Even if I close all of my source windows, WinDBG should remember
the last place I had a source window and the next one should come up in
the appropriate position.
I personally think that the new UI is mostly an improvement… that is
probably because I generally don’t have problems with it… but seeing
instructions like those above does not inspire confidence.
Thanks,
Joseph
It will be remembered; There are some gotchas, which leads to the strange step of “Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st source file”.
So WinDbg will remember settings by window types, not per-filename. So when a source window needs to be opened, WinDbg will ask itself, “Self, what was the last positioning operation done to a source window?”
This works in most cases. But what if the answer to that question was “The last source window was tab-docked on-top-of ‘a.cxx’”. If a.cxx is still open, then that’s fine. But if a.cxx has been closed, then the last docking operation of source windows is invalid, and WinDbg will not do as you may expect.
Jason
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Galbraith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 12:13 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Tim Roberts wrote:
Jason Shay wrote:
> Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock?
> Where do you want your source windows to go?
>
> Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time?
> If no, try something like this:
>
> - Window ? Open Dock
>
> - Close all source windows.
>
> - Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
>
> - Dock one of the source file into the new dock
>
> - Tab-dock the 2^nd source file with the first source file
>
> - Feel free to close the 2^nd source file, but not the 1^st
> source file
Even if I close all of my source windows, WinDBG should remember
the last place I had a source window and the next one should come up in
the appropriate position.
I personally think that the new UI is mostly an improvement… that is
probably because I generally don’t have problems with it… but seeing
instructions like those above does not inspire confidence.
Thanks,
Joseph
You are currently subscribed to windbg as: xxxxx@winse.microsoft.com
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OK Jason, you shamed me into spending 20mins setting this up 
Well, as you say, using multiple docks pretty much does what I want although
I see that I really have to tab-dock the source files in the 2nd dock to
make them readable (so I can only see one source file at a time).
So - I’m now setup the way I like – I still have to agree with Don and
others that the UI is rather cumbersome to use but I’m happy!
If anyone cares, what I did was:
*
start windbg with no params
*
create two new docks (Window->Open Dock)
*
Opened two of the placeholder source files from the Themes sub-dir
and tab-docked them both in one of the new docks
*
Opened the disassembly display and maximized it into the 2nd new
dock
*
Opened the command window & maximized it in the main windbg window
*
Opened the calls window and placed it in the bottom half of the main
window, then resized it so it only takes ~1/4 of the available space.
*
Exited windbg and saved the workspace.
Now I have something that looks a lot like the old UI
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:57 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Just run “WinDbg”. Then setup your UI how you want, and save it as the base
workspace. Other sessions will inherit the default workspace. Again,
Themes.doc has some more detail.
Pushing windows behind other windows can be done by using multiple docks.
Jason
Click
http:deID=&JobProductCodeID=&JobTitleCodeID=&Divisions=&TargetLevels=&Keywords=&J
obCode=&ManagerAlias=CLAUDIUD&Interval=10&StartDate=&EndDate=> here for job
opportunities on the Windows Reliability Test team
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Maybe I havent spent the requisite amount of time on this yet, but I do most
of my debugging with dumps which means (to date at least!) I have to
customize the UI everytime I open a new dump file. I presume it must be
possible to do this once and save it as the ‘default’ workspace…
Still, I’d like source windows to be able to float and also be able to push
them behind the command window - there simply isn’t enough real estate to
use docking…
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:12 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
These steps only need to be done once. In addition, they seem complicated
only because they are written to be generic enough to apply to any scenario.
Here’s a simpler version of them:
1 - tab-doc a source window (b.cxx) on top of another source window (a.cxx).
After that single step, all new source windows will be opened as tab-docked
against a.cxx.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old behaviour where I could
maximize the command window, source windows would popup up as needed but
could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont like that either
because the source windows end up maximized – it’s nice to be able to have
a few source windows show on the display and then also be able to hide them
behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
1. There should be an option to stop floating windows being always on top
2. The description below is waaaay to complicated and counter-intuitive to
make this usable
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are of the new dock? Where do
you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be displayed all of the time? If
no, try something like this:
- Window –> Open Dock
- Close all source windows.
- Open 2 source files (or text files), and make them float
- Dock one of the source file into the new dock
- Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the first source file
- Feel free to close the 2nd source file, but not the 1st source
file
The instruction above will cause all source files to open in a new dock,
always tab-docked. If you want source out of the way, just minimize that
dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6 against any position in any dock, to
control where source windows go when they are opened. Again, check out
themes.doc in v6.4, as it has more information about this behavior.
Jason
_____
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for example, each window lives
in its own dock), but nothing to revert to the older style. Fe find that
with multiple docks, docking windows, and tab-docking windows, the
environment can be setup to be pretty flexible. For those who don’t want to
think about it, there are pre-configured setups available in v6.4 (see
themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me to complain about the
biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked, so I get the maximum possible
space. If I a source window pops up, undocked, it will ALWAYS live on top
of the docked window. The source window will ALWAYS obscure the log window.
I either have to minimize or kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
- Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com mailto:xxxxx
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
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Jason Shay wrote:
So WinDbg will remember settings by window types, not per-filename. So
> when a source window needs to be opened, WinDbg will ask itself,
> “Self, what was the last positioning operation done to a source
> window?”This works in most cases. But what if the answer to that question
> was “The last source window was tab-docked on-top-of ‘a.cxx’”.
> If a.cxx is still open, then that’s fine. But if a.cxx has been
> closed, then the last docking operation of source windows is
> invalid, and WinDbg will not do as you may expect.
So what you are saying is that the first window docked
at a given position is special, because the position of
other windows tab-docked in the same position are stored
relative to the first window (the one the is normal-docked)
at that position? And that if the first goes away, WinDBG
can get confused?
Maybe that implies that WinDBG needs to make the answer to
the question about source windows “docked to the upper and
left side of such-and-such a dock.” And if there is more
than one window docked in the same position, well, one needs
tabs.
You see, as a programmer, I understand why I get strange
results opening a source files when the original file
wasn’t open given your description above.
However, as a user of the product (and I think I’m not alone here)
I don’t think of my source windows as tab-docked on-top of the
first window that was docked at a given position.
I think of having several different windows docked in the
same position. The tabs are an incidental thing that
allows me to navigate between multiple windows docked
at the same place. And which window was docked first
is completely irrelevant to me.
I would definitely argue that WinDBG should strive for more
intuitive behavior, even if the model used internally (source
windows are tabbed docked ontop of such and such a window) has
to change.
Thanks,
Joseph
One more thing. You may want to save off your preferred configuration
to easily restore it back to your favorite settings, since you’re bound
to need to reset it at some point. Just perform step 4 of “Before Using
a Theme” in themes.doc.
Thank you all for your feedback, both positive and negative.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 12:53 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
OK Jason, you shamed me into spending 20mins setting this up
Well, as you say, using multiple docks pretty much does what I want
although I see that I really have to tab-dock the source files in the
2nd dock to make them readable (so I can only see one source file at a
time).
So - I’m now setup the way I like – I still have to agree with Don and
others that the UI is rather cumbersome to use but I’m happy!
If anyone cares, what I did was:
* start windbg with no params
* create two new docks (Window->Open Dock)
* Opened two of the placeholder source files from the Themes
sub-dir and tab-docked them both in one of the new docks
* Opened the disassembly display and maximized it into the 2nd new
dock
* Opened the command window & maximized it in the main windbg
window
* Opened the calls window and placed it in the bottom half of the
main window, then resized it so it only takes ~1/4 of the available
space.
* Exited windbg and saved the workspace.
Now I have something that looks a lot like the old UI
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:57 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Just run “WinDbg”. Then setup your UI how you want, and save it
as the base workspace. Other sessions will inherit the default
workspace. Again, Themes.doc has some more detail.
Pushing windows behind other windows can be done by using
multiple docks.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Maybe I havent spent the requisite amount of time on this yet,
but I do most of my debugging with dumps which means (to date at least!)
I have to customize the UI everytime I open a new dump file. I presume
it must be possible to do this once and save it as the ‘default’
workspace…
Still, I’d like source windows to be able to float and also be
able to push them behind the command window - there simply isn’t enough
real estate to use docking…
Simon
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:12 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
These steps only need to be done once. In addition,
they seem complicated only because they are written to be generic enough
to apply to any scenario. Here’s a simpler version of them:
1 - tab-doc a source window (b.cxx) on top of another
source window (a.cxx).
After that single step, all new source windows will be
opened as tab-docked against a.cxx.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Graham, Simon
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Well, I dont know what Tim wants but I liked the old
behaviour where I could maximize the command window, source windows
would popup up as needed but could be hidden behind the command window.
I guess I could tab-dock sources with command BUT I dont
like that either because the source windows end up maximized – it’s
nice to be able to have a few source windows show on the display and
then also be able to hide them behind the other windows.
Bottom line:
There should be an option to stop floating windows
being always on top
The description below is waaaay to complicated and
counter-intuitive to make this usable
/simgr
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Jason Shay
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:03 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: RE: [windbg] Disable the docking
windows
Is your command window taking up the entire are
of the new dock? Where do you want your source windows to go?
Do you want some form of source code to be
displayed all of the time? If no, try something like this:
Window –> Open Dock
Close all source windows.
Open 2 source files (or text files),
and make them float
Dock one of the source file into the
new dock
Tab-dock the 2nd source file with the
first source file
Feel free to close the 2nd source
file, but not the 1st source file
The instruction above will cause all source
files to open in a new dock, always tab-docked. If you want source out
of the way, just minimize that dock. Note that you can do steps 2-6
against any position in any dock, to control where source windows go
when they are opened. Again, check out themes.doc in v6.4, as it has
more information about this behavior.
Jason
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking
windows
Jason Shay wrote:
No. There are ways to get similar results (for
example, each window lives in its own dock), but nothing to revert to
the older style. Fe find that with multiple docks, docking windows, and
tab-docking windows, the environment can be setup to be pretty flexible.
For those who don’t want to think about it, there are pre-configured
setups available in v6.4 (see themes.doc for more info).
Although I was not the original poster, allow me
to complain about the biggest annoyance I noted in the new interface.
I like to run with the main log window docked,
so I get the maximum possible space. If I a source window pops up,
undocked, it will ALWAYS live on top of the docked window. The source
window will ALWAYS obscure the log window. I either have to minimize or
kill the source window.
That is new behavior in 6.3.
–
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First docked window behavior isn’t special, it’s just different than
tab-docking behavior. There are 3 types of window positioning
operations which windbg will remember:
1 - undocked (default)
2 - docked
3 - tab-docked
So when creating a window, WinDbg will follow the rules of each type of
positioning operation. If a window types’s last positioning operation
was #1 (an undock), it will create new windows of that type as a fresh
new window.
For #2 (docked), it will create new windows as docked. This follows
rules very similar to what you were saying, such as upper-left corner,
etc.
For #3 (tab-docked), it will put it in the same dock as a.cxx (assuming
the last manual tab-docking operation was to tab-dock onto a.cxx).
I agree with you that the user expects the tab-docking to be based on
window position, rather than the actual window which you’re tab-docking
to. I had previously suggested to make some kind of a hidden window in
each dock position, which tab-docks will try to use as the parent. This
hidden window would never be closed until the dock position went away.
It was rejected, but I’ll bring it up again.
Jason
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Galbraith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:25 PM
To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
Subject: Re: [windbg] Disable the docking windows
Jason Shay wrote:
So WinDbg will remember settings by window types, not per-filename.
So
> when a source window needs to be opened, WinDbg will ask itself,
> “Self, what was the last positioning operation done to a source
> window?”This works in most cases. But what if the answer to that question
> was “The last source window was tab-docked on-top-of ‘a.cxx’”.
> If a.cxx is still open, then that’s fine. But if a.cxx has been
> closed, then the last docking operation of source windows is
> invalid, and WinDbg will not do as you may expect.
So what you are saying is that the first window docked
at a given position is special, because the position of
other windows tab-docked in the same position are stored
relative to the first window (the one the is normal-docked)
at that position? And that if the first goes away, WinDBG
can get confused?
Maybe that implies that WinDBG needs to make the answer to
the question about source windows “docked to the upper and
left side of such-and-such a dock.” And if there is more
than one window docked in the same position, well, one needs
tabs.
You see, as a programmer, I understand why I get strange
results opening a source files when the original file
wasn’t open given your description above.
However, as a user of the product (and I think I’m not alone here)
I don’t think of my source windows as tab-docked on-top of the
first window that was docked at a given position.
I think of having several different windows docked in the
same position. The tabs are an incidental thing that
allows me to navigate between multiple windows docked
at the same place. And which window was docked first
is completely irrelevant to me.
I would definitely argue that WinDBG should strive for more
intuitive behavior, even if the model used internally (source
windows are tabbed docked ontop of such and such a window) has
to change.
Thanks,
Joseph
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