i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial port. so what is the other way of debugging.
i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
In my experience, USB 2.0 is not easy to build. It related to if the USB
controller support debug function, and related to if the OEM export the USB
debug port.
You can try another approach I used: open the back hat of laptop, drop the
wireless card which should be pcie port. And then you insert a mini-PCIe
card connected by 1394 card.
2011/2/25
> i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
> seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
> port. so what is the other way of debugging.
>
> i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
> well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
For example, Dell has removed IEEE 1394 port from a lot of its series- New
XPS 14 & 15. It doesn’t seem to be in either Inspiron or Vostro. Latitude is
an option which adds up to the cost. Acer on the other hand has some laptops
that have DEP disabled (I don’t know what got into their minds to disable
DEP, even though the Intel VT feature is enabled). This means that you
cannot use Hyper-V on it since it requires BOTH DEP and Intel-VT to be
enabled.
Some new laptops do not have the slot where you can insert the PCI add on
card (available on OSR online store also I think). But check if you have one
on the laptop.
I personally liked IEEE 1394… Finding a USB debugging cable is like a
“treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it and from what I have heard from
people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
It would be nice if OSR could add this USB debugging cable to its online
store. 
Regards,
Ayush Gupta
Software Consultant & Owner,
AI Consulting
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@rediffmail.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:22 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
port. so what is the other way of debugging.
i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
It’s also (or at least used to be) several times more expensive than a 1394
card.
Mm
On Feb 25, 2011 12:17 AM, “Ayush Gupta” wrote:
> It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
> virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
> For example, Dell has removed IEEE 1394 port from a lot of its series- New
> XPS 14 & 15. It doesn’t seem to be in either Inspiron or Vostro. Latitude
is
> an option which adds up to the cost. Acer on the other hand has some
laptops
> that have DEP disabled (I don’t know what got into their minds to disable
> DEP, even though the Intel VT feature is enabled). This means that you
> cannot use Hyper-V on it since it requires BOTH DEP and Intel-VT to be
> enabled.
> Some new laptops do not have the slot where you can insert the PCI add on
> card (available on OSR online store also I think). But check if you have
one
> on the laptop.
> I personally liked IEEE 1394… Finding a USB debugging cable is like a
> “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it and from what I have heard from
> people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
>
> It would be nice if OSR could add this USB debugging cable to its online
> store.
>
> Regards,
> Ayush Gupta
> Software Consultant & Owner,
> AI Consulting
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@rediffmail.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:22 AM
> To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
>
> i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
> seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
> port. so what is the other way of debugging.
>
> i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
> well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging & virtualization
when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
2 and a half year with OEM companies made me think it has more to do with
which segment the platform is targeted. if it is a low price segment then
they dont ship the high end features (VT/DEP). The same chipset with these
features enabled (BIOS) will then we relaunched as a higher end machine. It
is much cheaper doing this at firmware level than in hardware level where
they tape out the same chip with diff configurations.
Latitude is an option which adds up to the cost.
that *precisely* is the idea. A student doesnt need these features, neither
does a CEO, but a dev would, so target different segments. Also many of
these laptops have docking stations with more exhaustive port support in
them, definitely a docking station is not needed for many users and they can
save the cost there.
available on OSR online store also I think
the Belkin PCMCIA 1394 works fine in most cases. One issue with 1394 I found
is the pin outs, the larger pinouts are better for debugging than the
smaller ones. I have found best results when both sides have the same
controllers.
USB debugging cable is like a “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it
and from what I have heard from
people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
Cables are easy to find, board schematics is more of a problem. The USB
debugger only works on USB EHCI controllers, usually PORT 0 for the hardware
vendor.
USBView utility helps u find it (PORT1 there is PORT 0 for hardware vendor)
regards
amitrajit
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Ayush Gupta wrote:
> It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
> virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
> For example, Dell has removed IEEE 1394 port from a lot of its series- New
> XPS 14 & 15. It doesn’t seem to be in either Inspiron or Vostro. Latitude
> is
> an option which adds up to the cost. Acer on the other hand has some
> laptops
> that have DEP disabled (I don’t know what got into their minds to disable
> DEP, even though the Intel VT feature is enabled). This means that you
> cannot use Hyper-V on it since it requires BOTH DEP and Intel-VT to be
> enabled.
> Some new laptops do not have the slot where you can insert the PCI add on
> card (available on OSR online store also I think). But check if you have
> one
> on the laptop.
> I personally liked IEEE 1394… Finding a USB debugging cable is like a
> “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it and from what I have heard from
> people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
>
> It would be nice if OSR could add this USB debugging cable to its online
> store.
>
> Regards,
> Ayush Gupta
> Software Consultant & Owner,
> AI Consulting
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@rediffmail.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:22 AM
> To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
>
> i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
> seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
> port. so what is the other way of debugging.
>
> i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
> well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
–
- amitr0
When you say that ‘larger pinouts’ work better, what do you mean exactly?
I’ve never used one the four pin cables, so I’m just curious.
mm
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of amitr0
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 9:23 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
2 and a half year with OEM companies made me think it has more to do with
which segment the platform is targeted. if it is a low price segment then
they dont ship the high end features (VT/DEP). The same chipset with these
features enabled (BIOS) will then we relaunched as a higher end machine. It
is much cheaper doing this at firmware level than in hardware level where
they tape out the same chip with diff configurations.
Latitude is an option which adds up to the cost.
that *precisely* is the idea. A student doesnt need these features, neither
does a CEO, but a dev would, so target different segments. Also many of
these laptops have docking stations with more exhaustive port support in
them, definitely a docking station is not needed for many users and they can
save the cost there.
available on OSR online store also I think
the Belkin PCMCIA 1394 works fine in most cases. One issue with 1394 I found
is the pin outs, the larger pinouts are better for debugging than the
smaller ones. I have found best results when both sides have the same
controllers.
USB debugging cable is like a “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it
and from what I have heard from
people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
Cables are easy to find, board schematics is more of a problem. The USB
debugger only works on USB EHCI controllers, usually PORT 0 for the hardware
vendor.
USBView utility helps u find it (PORT1 there is PORT 0 for hardware vendor)
regards
amitrajit
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Ayush Gupta wrote:
It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
For example, Dell has removed IEEE 1394 port from a lot of its series- New
XPS 14 & 15. It doesn’t seem to be in either Inspiron or Vostro. Latitude is
an option which adds up to the cost. Acer on the other hand has some laptops
that have DEP disabled (I don’t know what got into their minds to disable
DEP, even though the Intel VT feature is enabled). This means that you
cannot use Hyper-V on it since it requires BOTH DEP and Intel-VT to be
enabled.
Some new laptops do not have the slot where you can insert the PCI add on
card (available on OSR online store also I think). But check if you have one
on the laptop.
I personally liked IEEE 1394… Finding a USB debugging cable is like a
“treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it and from what I have heard from
people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
It would be nice if OSR could add this USB debugging cable to its online
store.
Regards,
Ayush Gupta
Software Consultant & Owner,
AI Consulting
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@rediffmail.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:22 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
port. so what is the other way of debugging.
i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
—
NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
—
NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
–
- amitr0
— NTFSD is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of debugging and file system
seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List
Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
My dear friend MM,
(it was MM who initially helped me with firewire around 2 yrs back)
the 6 circuit to 6circuit gave me best results…
the 4 (debugger) to 6 (debugee) also worked
the 6(debugger) to 4 (debugee) never would connect.
this is from memory, and I was trying to debug one lenovo t61(santa rosa)
from another and the t61’s came with 4 connector 1394s but we couldn’t
quite get them to connect. then I happened to go to fry’s to pick up a
belkin 6 pin 1394 and luckily the santa rosa had a pcmcia slot, and the
debugger started to work.
we later on ran into trouble with the Kodachi (x300) which neither has a
pcmcia slot not has a firewire pinout. that is where we shifted to USB.
I have also had bad experiences with Samsung laptops, more so when you are
sitting in south korea ad you dont speak a word of korean but luckily the
samsung hardware team understood what I meant (thanks mat for then helping
me understand the USB stuff) and helped me out.
Strangely the issue I was chasing wouldn’t reproduce on the original intel
Red fort CRB which has all the pin outs I ever can dream of, even an
interposer. And so it must have been with some samsung customization. And
since this issue was found pretty late in the production cycle, all boards
were production taped out and all extra ‘useless’ ports omitted and no
interposer either.
best
amit
PS: Damn i miss working for a hardware company 
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Martin O’Brien <
xxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
When you say that ?larger pinouts? work better, what do you mean
exactly? I?ve never used one the four pin cables, so I?m just curious.mm
*From:* xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] *On Behalf Of *amitr0
*Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 9:23 AM*To:* Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
*Subject:* Re: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0>It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging
& virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…2 and a half year with OEM companies made me think it has more to do with
which segment the platform is targeted. if it is a low price segment then
they dont ship the high end features (VT/DEP). The same chipset with these
features enabled (BIOS) will then we relaunched as a higher end machine. It
is much cheaper doing this at firmware level than in hardware level where
they tape out the same chip with diff configurations.> Latitude is an option which adds up to the cost.
that *precisely* is the idea. A student doesnt need these features, neither
does a CEO, but a dev would, so target different segments. Also many of
these laptops have docking stations with more exhaustive port support in
them, definitely a docking station is not needed for many users and they can
save the cost there.>available on OSR online store also I think
the Belkin PCMCIA 1394 works fine in most cases. One issue with 1394 I
found is the pin outs, the larger pinouts are better for debugging than the
smaller ones. I have found best results when both sides have the same
controllers.>USB debugging cable is like a “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it
and from what I have heard frompeople, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
Cables are easy to find, board schematics is more of a problem. The USB
debugger only works on USB EHCI controllers, usually PORT 0 for the hardware
vendor.USBView utility helps u find it (PORT1 there is PORT 0 for hardware vendor)
regards
amitrajit
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Ayush Gupta wrote:
>
> It does seem that companies don’t care much about kernel debugging &
> virtualization when it comes to laptop (or desktop in some cases)…
> For example, Dell has removed IEEE 1394 port from a lot of its series- New
> XPS 14 & 15. It doesn’t seem to be in either Inspiron or Vostro. Latitude
> is
> an option which adds up to the cost. Acer on the other hand has some
> laptops
> that have DEP disabled (I don’t know what got into their minds to disable
> DEP, even though the Intel VT feature is enabled). This means that you
> cannot use Hyper-V on it since it requires BOTH DEP and Intel-VT to be
> enabled.
> Some new laptops do not have the slot where you can insert the PCI add on
> card (available on OSR online store also I think). But check if you have
> one
> on the laptop.
> I personally liked IEEE 1394… Finding a USB debugging cable is like a
> “treasure hunt”; for one, you don’t get it and from what I have heard from
> people, even if you get it, often you can’t get it to work!
>
> It would be nice if OSR could add this USB debugging cable to its online
> store.
>
> Regards,
> Ayush Gupta
> Software Consultant & Owner,
> AI Consulting
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@rediffmail.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:22 AM
> To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntfsd] debugging over 1394 & USB 2.0
>
> i am looking out for a new 14’’ laptop for driver development. but i don’t
> seem to find new 14" laptops having 1394 port. they neither have serial
> port. so what is the other way of debugging.
>
> i have debugged over 1394 comfortably. does debugging over usb 2.0 works
> well. or should i stick to 1394? can anyone share their experience.
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
>
>
> –
>
> - amitr0
>
> — NTFSD is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of debugging and file system
> seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List
> Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTFSD is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of debugging and file system seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
–
- amitr0