Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK 8+

NTDEV
1

First I’ll admit my use of Visual Studio over the years has been primarily a
text editor and grep, plus doing a few simple C, C++ or C# programs. I’ve
been trying to deal with moving a typical for me driver project to WDK 8.0
and not having good luck. My typical project contains:

1 or more drivers
A user space DLL
1 or more test programs
Plus sometimes a miscellaneous tool invocation for things like updating
revision numbers, making an install image and test signing the driver

Given the complexity of a particular project I did not expect the Microsoft
conversion tool to work and I was not disappointed. But I was unhappy when
even a component of this such as the driver typically did not convert. So
given all this I know I need to probably manual create a solution with N
projects to address my needs. My problem comes that even if I do this
getting things straightened out, including being able to build for all the
targets my clients want is such a major pain in the ass, that I try never to
do it. It seems I am always going back to the BUILD logs to find missing
libraries / includes etc (and this is when there is no include files /
libraries other than Microsoft’s in the project!)… Right now my best time
is close to a day of pain to get something that I still don’t trust.

So my question is how do people approach converting to WDK 8 from a previous
complex project?

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

2

Send me the sources, dirs, and any makefile.inc files you are trying to convert offline. Don’t need actual source code, just the build infrastructure stuff. I want to see why the conversion is failing.

Thx
d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK 8+

First I’ll admit my use of Visual Studio over the years has been primarily a
text editor and grep, plus doing a few simple C, C++ or C# programs. I’ve
been trying to deal with moving a typical for me driver project to WDK 8.0 and not having good luck. My typical project contains:

1 or more drivers
A user space DLL
1 or more test programs
Plus sometimes a miscellaneous tool invocation for things like updating revision numbers, making an install image and test signing the driver

Given the complexity of a particular project I did not expect the Microsoft conversion tool to work and I was not disappointed. But I was unhappy when
even a component of this such as the driver typically did not convert. So
given all this I know I need to probably manual create a solution with N
projects to address my needs. My problem comes that even if I do this
getting things straightened out, including being able to build for all the targets my clients want is such a major pain in the ass, that I try never to do it. It seems I am always going back to the BUILD logs to find missing libraries / includes etc (and this is when there is no include files / libraries other than Microsoft’s in the project!)… Right now my best time is close to a day of pain to get something that I still don’t trust.

So my question is how do people approach converting to WDK 8 from a previous complex project?

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

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3

The problem that I had with the conversion utility is that it converted the sources file to a properties file and included it in the build. It did not fully integrate with the VS project files. The result was a lib (csq.lib) was not found. It took me a while to find where it was in the project since it was not in the project-link section. After that I built all new projects for my drivers instead of using the convert utility.

 

Bill Wandel

 

on Dec 04, 2013, Doron Holan wrote:

Send me the sources, dirs, and any makefile.inc files you are trying to convert offline. Don’t need actual source code, just the build infrastructure stuff. I want to see why the conversion is failing.

Thx
d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK 8+

First I’ll admit my use of Visual Studio over the years has been primarily a
text editor and grep, plus doing a few simple C, C++ or C# programs. I’ve
been trying to deal with moving a typical for me driver project to WDK 8.0 and not having good luck. My typical project contains:

1 or more drivers
A user space DLL
1 or more test programs
Plus sometimes a miscellaneous tool invocation for things like updating revision numbers, making an install image and test signing the driver

Given the complexity of a particular project I did not expect the Microsoft conversion tool to work and I was not disappointed. But I was unhappy when
even a component of this such as the driver typically did not convert. So
given all this I know I need to probably manual create a solution with N
projects to address my needs. My problem comes that even if I do this
getting things straightened out, including being able to build for all the targets my clients want is such a major pain in the ass, that I try never to do it. It seems I am always going back to the BUILD logs to find missing libraries / includes etc (and this is when there is no include files / libraries other than Microsoft’s in the project!)… Right now my best time is close to a day of pain to get something that I still don’t trust.

So my question is how do people approach converting to WDK 8 from a previous complex project?


Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr




—
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4

I don’t even try to convert anything, as it has never worked for me.
Instead I start from a sample project and then pour my driver source files
into that project. If there is an associated app, I do the same thing:
start with a basic VS app project and pour my app sources into that. Repeat
for related libraries. Fix up all the errors. About a day seems right. All
manual. I do not know how to set up a VS driver project from nothing, I’ve
tried and failed, so I always start from a sample. Worse, different samples
have slightly different layouts, so if you have some surrounding build
process that is running VS builds and then picking up the outputs for post
processing (like to get them into an installer, put symbols in a symbol
server, etc.) you have to deal with that too.

Mark Roddy

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Don Burn wrote:

> First I’ll admit my use of Visual Studio over the years has been primarily
> a
> text editor and grep, plus doing a few simple C, C++ or C# programs. I’ve
> been trying to deal with moving a typical for me driver project to WDK 8.0
> and not having good luck. My typical project contains:
>
> 1 or more drivers
> A user space DLL
> 1 or more test programs
> Plus sometimes a miscellaneous tool invocation for things like
> updating
> revision numbers, making an install image and test signing the driver
>
> Given the complexity of a particular project I did not expect the Microsoft
> conversion tool to work and I was not disappointed. But I was unhappy when
> even a component of this such as the driver typically did not convert. So
> given all this I know I need to probably manual create a solution with N
> projects to address my needs. My problem comes that even if I do this
> getting things straightened out, including being able to build for all the
> targets my clients want is such a major pain in the ass, that I try never
> to
> do it. It seems I am always going back to the BUILD logs to find missing
> libraries / includes etc (and this is when there is no include files /
> libraries other than Microsoft’s in the project!)… Right now my best time
> is close to a day of pain to get something that I still don’t trust.
>
> So my question is how do people approach converting to WDK 8 from a
> previous
> complex project?
>
>
> Don Burn
> Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
>
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

5

Build an empty driver solution. Add the files you want to the driver project. Set-up the project attributes.

Annoying, but once done… it’s done.

You DO NOT want to use the converter for anything other than “I want to try this” type projects. It generates projects that are “special.” If you want a nice, clean, understandable infrastructure for your project, use the method I described above.

Peter
OSR

6

I used the File->Open->Convert from Sources/Dirs, then spent a week fixing all the errors, then never looked back.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK 8+

Build an empty driver solution. Add the files you want to the driver project. Set-up the project attributes.

Annoying, but once done… it’s done.

You DO NOT want to use the converter for anything other than “I want to try this” type projects. It generates projects that are “special.” If you want a nice, clean, understandable infrastructure for your project, use the method I described above.

Peter
OSR

NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

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7

> Build an empty driver solution. Add the files you want to the driver
project.

Set-up the project attributes.

Exactly. My DIRS/SOURCES tree accreted lots of complex and clever usage of
NMAKE-isms and use of things like PROJECT.MK and other things that knew lots
about the goings on of MAKEFILE.NEW. It had zero chance of converting and
the conflaguration was spectacular (of course I let it try just for fun).

It is way more predictable and auditable to move forward from an empty
driver solution.

Cheers,
Dave Cattley

8

On 05-Dec-2013 02:12, Dave Cattley wrote:

My DIRS/SOURCES tree accreted lots of complex and clever usage of
NMAKE-isms and use of things like PROJECT.MK and other things that knew lots
about the goings on of MAKEFILE.NEW. It had zero chance of converting

Much knowledge is much grief? :wink:

Fortunately, one reason for complex SOURCES projects is now gone:
restriction on the source tree structure. That has lead to factor
subdirectories out as libraries, and so on. Now we just can keep
the files anywhere we like, and build as a whole.
And we can use custom property sheets to quickly bring common properties
(defines, includes, environment vars) to new projects.
– pa

9

>I used the File->Open->Convert from Sources/Dirs, then spent a week fixing all the errors

For such, I would not do convert but would re-create the project from scratch using the same source files.

–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

10

Thanks to Mark and all the other folks who commented, definitely not
encouraging, especially since as I said 1 day was my best time, and I can
now categorically state it is build CRAP! I offered to a client recently to
return their money, rather than waste more time on trying to make the stuff
work with WDK 8. I should also say, that most of the time I am done, I find
that instead of one solution I have N where I then have to absorb the cost
of maintenance (since the customer has to be told how to manually get things
to build in the right order).

On the comment one and done, not when you are supporting clients. The
couple of Win8 WDK projects, I have now discovered expect hours to days
everytime they say “we just did a minor change”

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 6:29 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK
8+

I don’t even try to convert anything, as it has never worked for me. Instead
I start from a sample project and then pour my driver source files into that
project. If there is an associated app, I do the same thing: start with a
basic VS app project and pour my app sources into that. Repeat for related
libraries. Fix up all the errors. About a day seems right. All manual. I do
not know how to set up a VS driver project from nothing, I’ve tried and
failed, so I always start from a sample. Worse, different samples have
slightly different layouts, so if you have some surrounding build process
that is running VS builds and then picking up the outputs for post
processing (like to get them into an installer, put symbols in a symbol
server, etc.) you have to deal with that too.

Mark Roddy

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Don Burn wrote:

First I’ll admit my use of Visual Studio over the years has been
primarily a
text editor and grep, plus doing a few simple C, C++ or C# programs.
I’ve
been trying to deal with moving a typical for me driver project to
WDK 8.0
and not having good luck. My typical project contains:

1 or more drivers
A user space DLL
1 or more test programs
Plus sometimes a miscellaneous tool invocation for things like
updating
revision numbers, making an install image and test signing the
driver

Given the complexity of a particular project I did not expect the
Microsoft
conversion tool to work and I was not disappointed. But I was
unhappy when
even a component of this such as the driver typically did not
convert. So
given all this I know I need to probably manual create a solution
with N
projects to address my needs. My problem comes that even if I do
this
getting things straightened out, including being able to build for
all the
targets my clients want is such a major pain in the ass, that I try
never to
do it. It seems I am always going back to the BUILD logs to find
missing
libraries / includes etc (and this is when there is no include files
/
libraries other than Microsoft’s in the project!)… Right now my
best time
is close to a day of pain to get something that I still don’t trust.

So my question is how do people approach converting to WDK 8 from a
previous
complex project?

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

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http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See
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seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List
Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

11

> Fortunately, one reason for complex SOURCES projects is now gone

Indeed! I think the WDK team did a great job in the heavy lift to the
MSBUILD based system. I did not ever really think that translation from
DIRS/SOURCES was going to be that useful. For simple projects it would work
but then again, simple projects could be reconstructed easily.

I have no disappointment nor disillusionment. Grief? Well that is my own
doing :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Dave Cattley

12

Sorry you have so much trouble with the build environment, Don. I can’t say we have the same.

It takes a while to learn… But we’ve found using a widely used, flexible, and well documented build system is faaaaaar better than using a poorly documented, arcane, specialized build system. We’ve converted some *very* complex projects (comprising literally a few hundred thousand lines of code) this year. It’s work, but it’s always been worth it.

If you want to do sonething with msbuild, you can ask Google and you’ll get an answer. If you want to do something with sources/dirs, you could ask here on ntdev and hope somebody reads your post, knows the answer, and has the time to answer your post. I guess you prefer to take your chances here, huh?

Yes, there are issues with the WDK supporting down level OS versions. Those issues suck. But the build system itself? Nothing wrong with it, as far as anyone I work with can tell.

Maybe you can describe the layout of your project, or post your sources file… So we can try to grasp what it is that’s unique about your build approach that makes it so hard to convert to msbuild. And we can give you advice on how to proceed?

13

Peter Viscarola (OSR) wrote:

Maybe you can describe the layout of your project, or
post your sources file… So we can try to grasp what it
is that’s unique about your build approach that makes it
so hard to convert to msbuild. And we can give you advice
on how to proceed?

And did he send the files to Doron like he asked, and if so, what did he say?

Inquiring minds want to know…

14

I have not been sent anything

d

Bent from my phone

From: xxxxx@gmail.commailto:xxxxx
Sent: ?12/?4/?2013 7:42 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest Listmailto:xxxxx
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK 8+

Peter Viscarola (OSR) wrote:

> Maybe you can describe the layout of your project, or
> post your sources file… So we can try to grasp what it
> is that’s unique about your build approach that makes it
> so hard to convert to msbuild. And we can give you advice
> on how to proceed?

And did he send the files to Doron like he asked, and if so, what did he say?

Inquiring minds want to know…

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx>

15

I haven’t sent the files since:

  1. I was trying to remember which exhibited which behavior since the
    projects failed in differing ways, I.E. tool reported failure, tool
    completed but driver does not build, tool completed and opening project
    crashed visual studio (I am trying to repo that one).

  2. From all the comments trying to use the conversion tool is not worth the
    time it takes. Since the files were to understand the tools problems…

I had hoped for an approach that would not waste a day of my time, no matter
how complex the layering and file structure I’ve had to create for a BUILD
project, never in my 19 years of using BUILD did I ever spend close to the
amount of time the simplest Visual Studio driver project has required to set
up.

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Doron Holan
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:27 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK
8+

I have not been sent anything

d

Bent from my phone

From: xxxxx@gmail.com
Sent: ?12/?4/?2013 7:42 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List mailto:xxxxx
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Approaches for converting DIRS/SOURCES projects to WDK
8+

Peter Viscarola (OSR) wrote:

> Maybe you can describe the layout of your project, or
> post your sources file… So we can try to grasp what it
> is that’s unique about your build approach that makes it
> so hard to convert to msbuild. And we can give you advice
> on how to proceed?

And did he send the files to Doron like he asked, and if so, what did he
say?

Inquiring minds want to know…

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
http:

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Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</http:></mailto:xxxxx>

16

(Emphasis in the above is mine)

SURELY you don’t mean that. SURELY you’ve joined the Dr. Newcomer school of hyperbole and histrionics here.

“The simplest Visual Studio driver project”? Seriously?

How’s this:

  1. Run Visual Studio

  2. Do File… New… Project.

  3. Select Visual C++, Windows Driver, WDF

  4. Select Kernel Mode Driver (KMDF)

  5. Click OK.

Done.

I *think* that’s “the simplest VS driver project” – I think.

I just did it and timed it. Less than one minute, total. This includes the time it took VS 2013 to load on my machine.

OH, wait… you meant create your OWN driver project with files you already HAVE? Well, that’s different:

1), 2), 3)… same as above

  1. select Kernel Mode Driver, Empty (KMDF)

  2. Click OK

  3. In Solution Explorer, right-click “Source Files”… Click Add. Select your file.

  4. Repeat for other files in your project (selecting “Header Files” or “Source Files” as appropriate)

  5. Under “Driver Files” edit the provided INF or substitute your own.

Done.

I just did this on my machine and timed it. Less than 3 minutes, total.

IF YOU HAVE A COMPLEX PROJECT it WILL take some time to convert. But how can this not be the case? You’re dramatically changing build systems, from one that was thrown together with existing tools by Steve Woods in 1989 to something that, you know, is relatively modern, well-documented, and flexible. It’s going to take time.

I GET that it’s new and you don’t know how to use it. Shit, *I* barely know how to use it. I have to constantly refer back to SNoone’s article in The NT Insider (http://insider.osr.com/2013/ntinsider_2013_01.pdf) to remember all those “elements”… but I rarely have to. I just follow the steps I outlined above.

Really.

And (as I’ve said before) our clients (from the largest to the smallest who don’t know anything about drivers) LOVE it. They all have Visual Studio. They all know how to use it, more or less. I just tell them “add in the DMK, open the solution, and rock on” – FAR easier than explaining which command prompt window to open and type “bcz”…

And, finally: NO. Though it generally works for me, perhaps with a tweak or two, DO NOT use the converter for anything other than “I want to try this out” type of builds. The projects it produces are NOT a good long-term solution, IMHO.

Peter
OSR

17

xxxxx@osr.com wrote:

If you want to do sonething with msbuild, you can ask Google and you’ll get an answer. If you want to do something with sources/dirs, you could ask here on ntdev and hope somebody reads your post, knows the answer, and has the time to answer your post.

Absolutely true. The original incarnation of vcproj files were a bit
non-deterministic, but I am now comfortable enough with the vcxproj
format that I can almost write them from scratch, like I would a
makefile. I almost never bring up the IDE any more.

As if [ntdev] and MSDN were not enough, allow me to recommend the book
“MSBuild Trickery: 99 Ways to Bend the Build Engine To Your Will” by
Brian Kretzler
(http://www.amazon.com/MSBuild-Trickery-Ways-Build-Engine/dp/061550907X).
That’s what really brought me enlightenment on how general purpose the
msbuild tool is.

–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

18


If you want to do sonething with msbuild, you can ask Google and you’ll get
an answer.

[/quote]


I need to install Visual Studio Xyz , WDK, SDK which is a pain in the ass
for me. And finding the right button in VS IDE to click is like finding the
right stock to buy.


If you want to do something with sources/dirs, you could ask here on ntdev
and hope somebody reads your post, knows the answer, and has the time to
answer your post.

[/quote]


I just sync or “cp -R” DDK from my source server. Don’t remember how to do
something in sources/dirs? Not a problem, makefile.new and friends tell me
everything that I need.


I did not ever really think that translation from DIRS/SOURCES was going to
be that useful.

[/quote]


It’s a life saver for me. Sorry, Dave. I have to challenge it so that
nmake2msbuild won’t get killed.

Calvin

19

Calvin Guan (news) wrote:


> If you want to do sonething with msbuild, you can ask Google and
> you’ll get an answer.
>
[/quote]

>
> I need to install Visual Studio Xyz , WDK, SDK which is a pain in the
> ass for me.

Well, yes, but that’s just the price of admission from now on.
Fortunately, all of that only takes an hour or so.

> I just sync or “cp -R” DDK from my source server.

Now you just store ISOs for Visual Studio and the WDK (which includes
the SDK, I believe).

> Don’t remember how to do something in sources/dirs? Not a problem,
> makefile.new and friends tell me everything that I need.

The exact same thing is true for MSBuild, with the files in \Program
Files\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp, AND you have the added benefit that those
files are all pretty well commented.

Oh, you didn’t know those files were there? Well, you didn’t know about
makefile.new either, until someone told you about it.

–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

20

I think you can now just install the tools for vs 201.

Mm

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Tim Roberts wrote:

Calvin Guan (news) wrote:


If you want to do sonething with msbuild, you can ask Google and you’ll get
an answer.

[/quote]


I need to install Visual Studio Xyz , WDK, SDK which is a pain in the ass
for me.

Well, yes, but that’s just the price of admission from now on.
Fortunately, all of that only takes an hour or so.

I just sync or “cp -R” DDK from my source server.

Now you just store ISOs for Visual Studio and the WDK (which includes the
SDK, I believe).

Don’t remember how to do something in sources/dirs? Not a problem,
makefile.new and friends tell me everything that I need.

The exact same thing is true for MSBuild, with the files in \Program
Files\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp, AND you have the added benefit that those
files are all pretty well commented.

Oh, you didn’t know those files were there? Well, you didn’t know about
makefile.new either, until someone told you about it.

–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

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