I meant real mode. Take a look at RealModeDriver.zip at
http://home.mindspring.com/~antognini/drivers/. If SoftICE can, for
example, single-step across the instructions in real mode (look for the
comment “Now in real mode” in the Assembler routine), SoftICE is
improved since I used it (or I didn’t know how to use it in a case like
this).
–
If replying by e-mail, please remove “nospam.” from the address.
James Antognini
> As for debugging the debugger debugger, well, that’s a black art. We
do it
by hand, and not very often.
The lower is a level of such a tool, the simpler is it.
For instance, I can imagine debugging the SI’s UI on a user-mode test
app, only the core part which controls the CPU needs the
very-low-level debugging. Also I expect the core part to be the same
in SI/DOS, SI/Win9x and SI/NT.
BTW - I’m impressed with SI’s being so great a low-level tool (though
I personally prefer WinDbg for NT), but I’m impressed by VMWare even
more 
is there any connections between the 2 teams?
Max
Now wouldn’t it be nice if SoftIce was compatible with VMWare… You
can’t even run SoftIce on the host machine while running VMWare in a
client window, not to mention running SoftIce on the client window. I
bug VMWare about it occasionally, but they just don’t want to sit down
with Compuware and figure it out.
VMWare is close by here in Palo Alto, and they are all very smart
people. Microsoft is sniffing around their territory with the Connectix
buyout though (although I believe the Connectix protect is an emulator,
not a virtualizer like VMWare).
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Maxim
S. Shatskih
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:29 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: SoftIce !!!> As for debugging the debugger debugger, well, that’s a black art. We
do it
> by hand, and not very often.The lower is a level of such a tool, the simpler is it.
For instance, I can imagine debugging the SI’s UI on a
user-mode test app, only the core part which controls the CPU
needs the very-low-level debugging. Also I expect the core
part to be the same in SI/DOS, SI/Win9x and SI/NT.BTW - I’m impressed with SI’s being so great a low-level tool
(though I personally prefer WinDbg for NT), but I’m impressed
by VMWare even moreMax
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@nryan.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> ----------
From: xxxxx@nryan.com[SMTP:xxxxx@nryan.com]
Reply To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:08 PM
To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Subject: [ntdev] Re: SoftIce !!!Now wouldn’t it be nice if SoftIce was compatible with VMWare… You
can’t even run SoftIce on the host machine while running VMWare in a
client window, not to mention running SoftIce on the client window. I
bug VMWare about it occasionally, but they just don’t want to sit down
with Compuware and figure it out.
Yes, it would be nice if both VMware and SoftICE can run on one host
machine. I asked for it years before and it was refused (by VMware) as too
complicated problem 
The situation with client is different – I was able to make it working. The
only problem is with display driver; standard VGA have to be used for
debugging inside virtual machine. This can be solved using headless
configuration and remote control. There were problems with internal
networking but the last beta which Alberto advertised here seems to solve
them.
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
STMicroelectronics Design and Application s.r.o.
[michal.vodicka@st.com, http:://www.st.com]
connectix’s virtual PC is a virtualizer (any x86 virtualizer requires a
certain amount of emulation as well to handle the privileged
instructions) not just an emulator.
and no, i’m not trying to get into an argument about which is better.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Ryan [mailto:xxxxx@nryan.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:08 PM
To: NT Developers Interest ListNow wouldn’t it be nice if SoftIce was compatible with
VMWare… You can’t even run SoftIce on the host machine
while running VMWare in a client window, not to mention
running SoftIce on the client window. I bug VMWare about it
occasionally, but they just don’t want to sit down with
Compuware and figure it out.VMWare is close by here in Palo Alto, and they are all very
smart people. Microsoft is sniffing around their territory
with the Connectix buyout though (although I believe the
Connectix protect is an emulator, not a virtualizer like VMWare).
- Nicholas Ryan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Maxim S.
> Shatskih
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: SoftIce !!!
>
>
> > As for debugging the debugger debugger, well, that’s a
black art. We
> do it
> > by hand, and not very often.
>
> The lower is a level of such a tool, the simpler is it.
>
> For instance, I can imagine debugging the SI’s UI on a
user-mode test
> app, only the core part which controls the CPU needs the
> very-low-level debugging. Also I expect the core part to be
the same
> in SI/DOS, SI/Win9x and SI/NT.
>
> BTW - I’m impressed with SI’s being so great a low-level
tool (though
> I personally prefer WinDbg for NT), but I’m impressed by
VMWare even
> more
>
> Max
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@nryan.com To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@microsoft.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
xxxxx@lists.osr.com
We don’t think NTICE (SoftICE for NT/2K/XP) supports this mode of operation,
however, Winice (for WinME and 9x) should support it easily. The issue is
that NTICE assumes a protected mode machine as its underlying hardware,
while Winice uses the more flexible 16/32-bit segmented architecture that is
used by Win9x. This has tickled our fancy, however, so, we’re looking at it
to see to what extent it works or doesn’t.
Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Antognini [mailto:xxxxx@mindspring.nospam.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:35 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: SoftIce !!!
I meant real mode. Take a look at RealModeDriver.zip at
http://home.mindspring.com/~antognini/drivers/. If SoftICE can, for
example, single-step across the instructions in real mode (look for the
comment “Now in real mode” in the Assembler routine), SoftICE is
improved since I used it (or I didn’t know how to use it in a case like
this).
–
If replying by e-mail, please remove “nospam.” from the address.
James Antognini
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
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> Now wouldn’t it be nice if SoftIce was compatible with VMWare… You
…or VMWare having its own debugger API/tools. Strange that they did
not provide such.
Max
> ----------
From: xxxxx@storagecraft.com[SMTP:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Reply To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:09 PM
To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Subject: [ntdev] Re: SoftIce !!!> Now wouldn’t it be nice if SoftIce was compatible with VMWare… You
…or VMWare having its own debugger API/tools. Strange that they did
not provide such.
Related info about the last beta (from
http://www.vmware.com/products/desktop/ws4_features.html):
program debugging within a virtual machine with support for both user- and
kernel-level debuggers. This is an incredible achievement, proving that this
fourth-generation virtual machine technology successfully incorporates the
full functionality of a real, physical PC into virtual machines – from CPU,
up through disks, displays, keyboards and mice – all done via software with
no hardware.
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
STMicroelectronics Design and Application s.r.o.
[michal.vodicka@st.com, http:://www.st.com]
> > …or VMWare having its own debugger API/tools. Strange that they
did
> not provide such.
>
Related info about the last beta (from
http://www.vmware.com/products/desktop/ws4_features.html):
Great!
Maybe they will also provide a toolkit to write VDDs to add the
emulated hardware to the VM?
Max