On topic: WTF is up with difx being disappeared?

NTDEV
21

So apparently the thread will end with a lot of unanswered questions. Short recap of one I brought up: corect me if I am wrong, but the suggestion by Microsoft to install drivers using windows update is impossible for a class filter driver. Though several different installation methods may still work, no one seems to know which way is actually most correct or future proof leaving a vacuum for the poor developers to select the wrong way.

It is appalling to read the shift in direction that user friendly single click installers that install an app and a filter driver are now frowned upon. Instead, a more complicated, decoupled, and less robust install process is seen as the future. Maybe it’s great for some types of drivers, but it’s a giant step backwards for others and will lessen the appeal of such products and the windows platform in general.

22

Bingo. The question of the week, if you add “and the custom driver is for hardware that I want to appear in Device Manager in a custom device class.”

I *THINK* I heard the answer was: Just use setupapi, per:

of course, this is sorta contradicted by the fast that

So… I *still* would like to know how I install a device into a custom device class on NanoServer. I feel like I’m missing something. What’s best practice considered to be?

Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers

23

What value //functionality are you getting from a custom device class? If it is UI grouping and pretty icons, nano has none of these things.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:04 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] On topic: WTF is up with difx being disappeared?



Bingo. The question of the week, if you add “and the custom driver is for hardware that I want to appear in Device Manager in a custom device class.”

I THINK I heard the answer was: Just use setupapi, per:



of course, this is sorta contradicted by the fast that



So… I still would like to know how I install a device into a custom device class on NanoServer. I feel like I’m missing something. What’s best practice considered to be?

Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers

—
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list online at: http:

MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and software drivers!
Details at http:

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http:</http:></http:></http:>

24

Well, sure. That’s true. But that’s not really an answer to the question. It’s a way to avoid the situation.

I want to put my OSR Missile Launcher in its own Setup Class because, as a best practice, that’s where it belongs. I want to be able to establish a predictable default device projection for all devices in the class, and default device characteristics. On SKUs where there IS a UI, I want the Missile Launcher to be easily discovered.

And I want to have ONE INF file that works on Workstation and Server and even NanoServer, if anybody elects to use one to control their missile system.

Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers

25

I’m not as hung up about “how it looks in device manager”. I’m sure Peter has use cases that make this a bigger deal for him and his clients.

My customers don’t need to go to the device manager to verify the device (or it’s drivers) are working; even though that’s what they have become accustomed to for many years. If they need a way to confirm these things, I can provide appropriate software. I’m completely fine lumping “non conforming” things into the “System Devices” or equivalent “other” class. If it doesn’t fit into a “normal” device class category the purpose of the machine is probably closely related to the special driver I’m authoring anyhow.

I am, however, still highly interested in hearing a response to:

26

> user friendly single click installers that install an app and a filter driver are now frowned upon

They’re not frowned upon, there just isn’t support for class filters in device configuration. By all means, do whatever you were doing before.

Where can I learn more about the configuration model?

We don’t have detailed documentation on the underlying implementation, but we’ve got an overview here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/drivers/install/using-a-configurable-inf-file

What’s the recommended install model to use in this scenario and how does driver
installation integrate with the installation experience?

The thing to keep in mind is that one of the design goals of configuration is to decouple things like software installation from the actual driver installation. You can have an exe that wraps the two of them (this is great), but you should still have the standalone driver package that does nothing except bring the device up to a functional state. The idea being that if you were bring up your device on a OneCore SKU, the actual driver would still work, you’d just need to figure out the software part if you wanted it for that SKU. I hope I’m explaining it well - exe that installs a driver and then installs some piece of software (or vice versa): recommended and configurable; an INF that uses a coinstaller to install software inline with the driver install: not recommended and setupapi-dependent.

From your exe, install the driver with DiInstallDevice or DiInstallDriver. It will automatically pick the correct installation mechanism. You can determine if your INF itself is compatible with configuration by using InfVerif to check if it’s universal (https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/hardware/drivers/devtest/infverif). Keep in mind that some *classes* will always fall back to setupapi (display and media come to mind), even if your INF works with configuration.

Microsoft to install drivers using windows update is impossible for a class
filter driver

This is true because Windows Updates target specific hardware devices, and presumably your filter driver does not. Otherwise, it would work, even if using setupapi

So… I *still* would like to know how I install a device into a custom device
class on NanoServer.

[ClassInstall32] actually works just fine with configuration. You just can’t use a class installer for your class, since installer DLLs are specifically non-configurable. We discourage the use of custom classes in most situations though, but I’ll leave that up to your discretion.

I am looking into this documentation issue

27

Really? It is listed as one of the sections that is “invalid” in a universal INF file, on the page you referenced.

Seriously. That’s why I asked.

The overall problem with ClassInstall32 is that it only really works for the first INF encountered for the class. After that, its ignored. I’ll grant you, that’s not a great model, but we work with what we’ve been given.

Bad plan. Even if you ONLY consider the major mess that is Device Object protection.

But we can debate that later, after I learn how to install my device in its own Setup Class via configuration.

Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers

28

@ Mark “Fascinating. You might want to fix the link here”

You mean MSFT actually document something clearly? Don’t hold your breath… :wink:

1 Like
29

Actually the docs do get updated. Sometimes they get updated too much. Plus
compared to, for example the vast pile of incompatible misinformation that
is the internets of *nix man pages, the msft docs are pretty good.

but really stackoverflow is better.

Mark Roddy

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:04 AM, wrote:

> @ Mark “Fascinating. You might want to fix the link here”
>
> You mean MSFT actually document something clearly? Don’t hold your
> breath… :wink:
>
>
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list online at: http:> showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
>
> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
> software drivers!
> Details at http:
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer&gt;
></http:></http:>

30

I am still waiting for any of my valid criticisms of MSFTs documentation to get implemented…

But Linux, its open source, so you cant expect a single point of documentation like Windows has to have, which is propitiatory. Instead LInux is documented by its uses cases. Hence stackoverflow.

(I also do linux kernel code by the way, its is interesting working on both camps)

31

xxxxx@hotmail.com wrote:

I am still waiting for any of my valid criticisms of MSFTs documentation to get implemented…

I don’t think you fully appreciate the processes involved in a large
corporation. Nothing gets done without being scanned, vetted,
discussed, approved, scheduled, assigned, written, checked,
double-checked, and deployed. Their writers were already busy doing
other work, so your task will move into some future sprint. I’m sure
your comments have gone into somebody’s proposed task list, and they
will talk about how to improve things.

–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

32

… blocked, ignored, NFI’d…

No one cares you know. Really.

Or perhaps I am just very cynical and have a jaded view of the world.

33

well if I can’t compare the MSFT docs to the docs for the only alternative
os to windows, then the msft docs are beyond comparison. They are neither
good nor bad, they are just “the docs”.

And stackoverflow is essential for both windows and linux.

Mark Roddy

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 12:54 PM, wrote:

> I am still waiting for any of my valid criticisms of MSFTs documentation
> to get implemented…
>
> But Linux, its open source, so you cant expect a single point of
> documentation like Windows has to have, which is propitiatory. Instead
> LInux is documented by its uses cases. Hence stackoverflow.
>
> (I also do linux kernel code by the way, its is interesting working on
> both camps)
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list online at: http:> showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
>
> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
> software drivers!
> Details at http:
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer&gt;
></http:></http:>