Don Burn said that a few years ago BillG in a speech ripped apart the
antivirus vendors since they accounted for a large percentage of the crashes
of Windows. The theory is probably that they use too many undocumented
system call hooks but in reality it’s because they need to install too many
filters drivers installed which all have to behave well.
/Daniel
“Dan Partelly” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I dont get it. What have a AV package in common with good coding practices
>?
> Dan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Daniel Terhell”
> Newsgroups: ntdev
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 6:09 PM
> Subject: Re:[ntdev] Re:KPEB
>
>
>> Sorry, didn’t want to hurt any toes. It was just a product launch, not a
>> rocket launch so he is probably forigiven. What I wanted to point out is
>> only that Microsoft antivirus for Windows is/was blatantly missing from
>> their software park.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> “Jamey Kirby” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>>> Courage!!! I suspect Bill Gates has far more courage that you will ever
>>> have.
>>>
>>> I also doubt you have ever had a blue screen in your code; we wish we
>>> could
>>> all be so perfect and courageous; NOT!
>>>
>>> Jamey
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>>> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Terhell
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:51 AM
>>> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
>>> Subject: Re:[ntdev] Re:KPEB
>>>
>>> Fact is that Bill Gates cannot even to produce an XBox presentation
>>> without
>>> bluescreening. As far as he wants to blame antivirus vendors for this,
>>> we
>>> know that at least he does know better. Until recently he did not even
>>> have
>>> the courage to produce any antivirus solution himself (at least after
>>> MSAV
>>> for Dos), it is easy to blame on the others who have done the dirty
>>> work
>>> for him. If Microsoft wants to get serious about security they should
>>> get
>>> serious about their own reponsability and that includes providing good
>>> APIs
>>> for developers.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Daniel Terhell
>>> Resplendence Software Projects Sp
>>> xxxxx@resplendence.com
>>> http://www.resplendence.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>>>> The API’'s have been there a long time, since it was years ago that
>>>> RegMon
>>>> switched to them. I agree that Microsoft needs to document them
>>>> properly.
>>>> I have checked a number of antivirus tools and most don’t hook, nor do
>>>> the
>>>> majority of the monitoring tools. Debugging tools are a special case,
>>>> this
>>>> list had a discussion a while back about IrpTracker as an example of
>>>> something that a developer has to realize can help but has risks.
>>>>
>>>> The reason I hate hooking and other bad practices is that I come from a
>>>> fault tolerant background. I am part of a team trying to bring fault
>>>> tolerance and reliability to Windows. Now having looked at the kernel
>>>> sources, Windows has come a long way in the last 7 years and is a
>>>> robust
>>>> system. What hasn’t come along is the improvement in 3rd party
>>>> drivers.
>>>> A
>>>> few years ago BillG in a speech ripped apart the antivirus vendors
>>>> since
>>>> they accounted for a large percentage of the crashes of Windows. I
>>>> believe
>>>> that AV has reduced the percentage, but from what I can tell AV and
>>>> security
>>>> are still a major reason Windows crashed.
>>>>
>>>> If you believe there is a real problem that Microsoft is not
>>>> addressing,
>>>> ask
>>>> them. They have been highly respectful of input as of late. No, I
>>>> don’t
>>>> expect they will turn on a dime and add all the feature we want, but
>>>> they
>>>> will listen and perhaps suggest a better way or offer a fix.
>>>>
>>>> There is a perception in the marketplace that Windows is buggy and
>>>> crashes
>>>> all the time and a an alternate OS is robust and reliable. I’ve gone
>>>> through the kernels of both and I know I would trust Windows over the
>>>> alternate. I also know that the last time I checked driver guru’s for
>>>> the
>>>> alternate were getting a heck of a lot less for a consult that
>>>> developers
>>>> for Windows. If we want long term to keep programming Windows we all
>>>> have
>>>> to make an effort to make it more reliable, and that means cutting out
>>>> the
>>>> hacks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> –
>>>> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
>>>> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>>>> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>>>>
>>>> “Daniel Terhell” wrote in message
>>>> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>>>>> This registry monitor api is I think still unofficial, only for the
>>>>> latest
>>>>> OSes, not part of the latest DDK. For a lot of the situations that
>>>>> developers do hooking the reason is that an acceptable solution still
>>>>> does
>>>>> not exist. If you get serious about your boycot you might find that
>>>> includes
>>>>> most of the antivirus, monitoring and debugging tool vendors. This
>>>>> world
>>>> has
>>>>> real problems but for many real solutions do not exist. If this is
>>>>> because
>>>>> the tools to develop them are lacking I think this religion is not
>>>> something
>>>>> we should embraced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Terhell
>>>>> Resplendence Software Projects Sp
>>>>> xxxxx@resplendence.com
>>>>> http://www.resplendence.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> —
>>> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
>>> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>>>
>>> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@tfb.com
>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>>>
>>> NOD32 1.974 (20050117) Information
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.nod32.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —
>> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
>> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@rdsor.ro
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
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