This is exactly what EFI is supposed to do at the BIOS level; BIOS
drivers create the abstraction to the OS. No more specialized OS drivers
for each new video card or SCSI controller. I suspect Microsoft is
banking on EFI for the future or the OS HAL.
With EFI, products like VMWare will also be more robust.
Let’s hope EMC does not screw the pooch.
I am too hung over to pontificate 
Jamey
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Nick Ryan
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:40 PM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntfsd] Re: How to debug driver on single machine?
Preach on brother. VM technology is creating a revolution in how many
companies view their computing resources because it severs the ties
between a given installation of an OS image and the hardware it was
installed upon. Why should an OS not be able to flow seamlessly on top
of a landscape of virtualized computing resources?
Microsoft frankly missed the boat on this one and is facing several
years of catch-up with VirtualPC and Virtual Server, along with concerns
about its willingness to support virtualization of competing products
that it will never be able to allay. Whatever lip service Microsoft may
pay to its willingness to support independent ISVs, it has never yet
seen a successful software product that it didn’t think it couldn’t
develop and market better in-house, while using any means necessary to
do so. Why should Microsoft not develop all software in the world if
they’re so good at it?
I honestly believe there is a fighting chance that they ARE good enough
at it that the quality of the world’s software would see an overall
dramatic improvement if this was to happen - for a short while. In the
end the inertia that overtakes all monopolies eventually will consume
Microsoft, and the world will miss out on 15-20 years of software
innovations that could have happened but didn’t. I am not optimistic
that Bill Gates has the maturity to appreciate an argument like this,
but maybe as he nears retirement he will begin to see (not just THINK)
with greater wisdom.
In the meantime, I will continue to appreciate the abilities of and work
happily with those at Microsoft trusted with the coding and support of
their products. My only advice to you is to try to do whatever you can
to get your senior leadership to see the light and make decisions that
will be advantageous to the software community as a whole in the
long-term, not just for Microsoft in the short-term.
Jamey Kirby wrote:
> VMWare RULZ!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of David J. Craig
> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 4:55 PM
> To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntfsd] Re: How to debug driver on single machine?
>
> I liked the long and difficult time to restore a test system comment.
> The poor man’s method is to use a good backup of the entire physical
> drive to a DVD, USB 2.0, or 1394 device. Then when it is corrupted,
> restore it quickly from a bootable CD running DOS. To get enough data
> space on the bootable CD, just use the 2.88MB image. You can do it
even
> without having a 2.88MB floppy drive or even the diskettes. I use
Total
> Commander with one of the add-ons that allows me to create images. I
> had to take a 1.44MB floppy’s boot sector and edit its BPB to match
> 2.88, but it wasn’t hard. I can restore a test system in just a few
> minutes.
>
> Another method is to use a second hard drive in a drive tray where you
> copy all allocated sectors from the primary to the secondary. Just
> reverse the process to restore it and always remove the 2nd hard drive
> when testing so it can’t be corrupted. I have used that method for
> years before support for USB 2.0 & 1394 became available.
>
> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntfsd…
>
>>Having had a virtual environment crash badly a few times, I repeat my
>
> IDIOCY
>
>>comment. If you do not isolate your testbed from your dev machine you
>
> are
>
>>likely to corrupt both, and that is pure STUPIDITY ON YOUR PART.
>>
>>Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
>>Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: “Dana Epp”
>>To: “Windows File Systems Devs Interest List”
>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 6:54 PM
>>Subject: [ntfsd] Re: How to debug driver on single machine?
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hey Don,
>>>
>>>
>>>>Buy a second machine, trying to do any file system work in a
>
> single
>
>>machine
>>
>>>>configuration is idiocy of the highest level. You are way to
>
> likely to
>
>>>>corrupt your build tree, and the time wasted in boot to run the
>
> dev
>
>>>>environment, reboot to test cycle will more than pay the cost.
>>>>
>>>>Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
>>>>Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>>>
>>>I’m sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with this. In the
>>>traditional sense you are correct (coding and testing on the same
>>>“session”) but you can VERY easily use one machine and a virtual
>
> emulator
>
>>>to do this, as some others have pointed out on the list already.
>>>
>>>To be honest, I think its pure idiocy to use multiple machines if
>
> you are
>
>>>doing any heavy work on a machine that you feel may “corrupt” your
>>>environment. As someone who has had to write a low level encryption
>
> driver
>
>>>and some security drivers in the past and do his fair bit of
>
> corrupting…
>
>>>I would NEVER move to a second machine environment until I was
>
> comfortable
>
>>>and sure most of the kinks were worked out. Having to rebuild your
>
> test
>
>>>image (be it some networked ghost/mirroring or even an automated raw
>
> CD
>
>>>install) is such an unproductive task, its not worth the effort. (I
>
> should
>
>>>admit I saw some neat setup automation tactics from Fargo Nelson
>
> over in
>
>>>Microsoft’s Windows Kernel Platforms group… but I find even that
>
> to be
>
>>>very time consuming to roll a new platform out quickly. I want to
>
> code,
>
>>>not rebuild machines)
>>>
>>>About a year ago I got exposed to doing kernelmode development with
>
> the
>
>>>use of VMWare, and I have never turned back. I even wrote a simple
>
> HOWTO
>
>>>for using WinDbg with VMWare over a named pipe to emulate a serial
>
> over
>
>>>at:
>>>
>>>http://silverstr.ufies.org/lotr0/windbg-vmware.html
>>>
>>>Its kinda dated now… but still works on VMWare 4. The key reason
>
> this
>
>>>environment works great is you can use real time snapshots of the OS
>
> at
>
>>>any given moment, and roll back as needed. I have like 10 different
>>>snapshots of various flavours of Windows in different states. I can
>>>QUICKLY flip to any given session in a few clicks, and I find it is
>
> MUCH
>
>>>faster than having to deal with most machine boot up times of a
>
> secondary
>
>>>test host. Note: If you ever do use VMWare make sure you use SCSI
>>>drives… the write times are ENORMOUSLY faster when taking
>
> snapshots and
>
>>>rolling back.
>>>
>>>To give you an example where this is useful… I have one snapshot
>
> used
>
>>>for testing my INF install which has the mouse ready to click on the
>>>install script. When its revived it immediately starts the
>
> installation
>
>>>from diskette. I can restart the session over and over again,
>
> stepping
>
>>>through it at leisure without having to wait for reboots. Its a poor
>
> mans
>
>>>way of doing the loading and unloading that the new Filter Manager
>
> does
>
>>>for the older driver framework.
>>>
>>>When I was at the latest Driver DevCon at the Microsoft Campus back
>
> in
>
>>>November I got to talk to the lead for VirtualPC to see how they
>
> were
>
>>>doing with the virtual debugging. They do have named pipe support…
>
> but
>
>>>they do NOT have in-session snapshots. That apparently is one of
>
> their
>
>>>biggest requests and one of the big things they expect to add in the
>
> next
>
>>>version… which won’t be out for a few years. One cavet of using
>
> VMWare
>
>>>is that it only has one snapshot per image. (Although rumor has it
>
> they
>
>>>are looking at doing something like an image diff to allow for
>
> multiples).
>
>>>This means you have to use multiple images to have different
>
> in-session
>
>>>snapshots… which is fine by me. I just wrote a quick perl script
>
> to
>
>>>basically copy the image and rename it with the info I want, and
>
> then
>
>>>reload it in VMWare as another session as needed.
>>>
>>>YMMV of course. And there is NOTHING WRONG with using two machines.
>
> But
>
>>>using a virtual environment DOES work WELL if you know what you’re
>>>doing… you might want to consider giving it another look.
>>>
>>>—
>>>Regards,
>>>Dana M. Epp
>>>[Blog: http://silverstr.ufies.org/blog/]
>>>
>>>—
>>>Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
>>
>>https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17
>>
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>
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>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
> https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17
>
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> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
>
>
–
Nick Ryan (MVP for DDK)
—
Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17
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