> Nor can you, apparently?
Well, the above statement would apply if I made some comments about MSFT “masterpiece”.
However, I did not (to be honest, it was hard for me to resist the temptation,but somehow I managed it)…
Anton Bassov
In my experience, simply hitting ctrl+alt+del again can break Win10 out of this condition too. It seems to be a race condition with the UI and resume but that is a total guess and I haven?t bothered to look further
Sent from Mailhttps: for Windows 10
From: Maxim S. Shatskihmailto:xxxxx
Sent: February 8, 2016 11:15 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest Listmailto:xxxxx
Subject: Re:[ntdev] RE:Driver development: Windows 7 or Windows 10
>the time I think it’s probably ctrl+alt+delete,
Yes.
>wait for the password prompt to appear before I can type my password
On a laptop? sometimes Win10 hangs for a while when you connect the AC power to the laptop.
Disconnect the power - the OS is alive again.
Connect it back - the OS is usually alive and the power is OK too.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
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> The UAC experience in both systems is practically identical.
Not when it is off. With Windows 10 basic MS apps, even calc, line up like a union picketing your decision, all refusing to run at all with UAC off.
No, this is not resume, just change of the power profile.
Mouse is IIRC dead too.
Probably it is a hardware issue.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
“Marion Bond” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
In my experience, simply hitting ctrl+alt+del again can break Win10 out of this condition too. It seems to be a race condition with the UI and resume but that is a total guess and I haven?t bothered to look further
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Maxim S. Shatskih
Sent: February 8, 2016 11:15 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] RE:Driver development: Windows 7 or Windows 10
>the time I think it’s probably ctrl+alt+delete,
Yes.
>wait for the password prompt to appear before I can type my password
On a laptop? sometimes Win10 hangs for a while when you connect the AC power to the laptop.
Disconnect the power - the OS is alive again.
Connect it back - the OS is usually alive and the power is OK too.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
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Eriksson wrote:
Not when it is off. With Windows 10 basic MS apps, even calc,
line up like a union picketing your decision, all refusing to run at
all with UAC off.
You’re saying calc.exe will refuse to run in Windows 10 with UAC disabled? I find that hard to believe? Then again I’m using XP right now…
Calc was rewritten (“reimagined”) for Windows 10 as a universal app…
On Feb 9, 2016, at 06:25, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
Eriksson wrote:
> Not when it is off. With Windows 10 basic MS apps, even calc,
> line up like a union picketing your decision, all refusing to run at
> all with UAC off.You’re saying calc.exe will refuse to run in Windows 10 with UAC disabled? I find that hard to believe? Then again I’m using XP right now…
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
Visit the list online at: http:
>
> MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and software drivers!
> Details at http:
>
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> You’re saying calc.exe will refuse to run in Windows 10 with UAC disabled?
I find that hard to believe? Then again I’m using XP right now…
Sadly, this is the truth. You can’t even view a jpg image with UAC off under Windows 10. Again, it’s like the union comes out and pickets every simple thing you try to do to punish you for turning UAC off. Everything worked just so nice and well up through Windows 7. Now this.
>Apparently we’ll have to wait for a smarter company like google or someone
else to make our computers help us rather than the other way around.
Well, you don’t really have to wait for anything - just install Linux, and that’s it.The issue that you find so irritating for yourself does not exist in this world (at least on Debian,which I would highly recommend if you were about to switch to Linux). For example, the only situations when I have to enter a root password are
A. I do some admin stuff on the command line (like, for example, installing a new kernel or some other program that I have built from the sources) . In this case I have to type su followed by my root password,and do it just once - the as long as I run the same terminal window and don’t logout I am be able to run any admin stufff that I wish. On distros that don’t have root account(i.e. Ubuntu)
I would have to type 'sudo password ’ every time I need root-level privileges.To ne honest,I find this part a bit annoying, which is one of the reasons why I don’t like Ubuntu that much (although some people find lack of root account as a tremendous advantage). OTOH, I have to admit that ‘sudo su’ may alleviate the problem to some extent, although some people think of it as of a security issue.
B. To be honest, I am too lazy to deal with the dependency list that command-line dpkg -i may dispaly if some prerequisites are missing, so that normally I run Synaptic Package Manager as a GUI app when dealing with packages. In this case I have to enter the root password before starting this app - again,I have to do it only once per Synaptic session
Does not seem to be particularly,complex,don’t you think. However, for this or that reason you chose to work with Windows. What are you complaining about then???
Anton Bassov
> Well, you don’t really have to wait for anything - just install Linux, and that’s it.
Linux fanboy never sleeps? 
(at least on Debian,which I would highly recommend if you were about to switch to Linux).
Me too
But, for practical workplace tasks of development, it is a good idea to use BOTH RPM-based distro like CentOS (which is just plain an outdated version of RHEL) and aptitude-based distro like Debian.
I have to type su followed by my root password,and do it just once
Me too
Does not seem to be particularly,complex,don’t you think.
Yes.
And Windows is even simpler - you do not need to type the password each time, just hit OK in a message box. Well, if you want, you can create a non-admin account, in which case you will need to type a password in the same box.
UAC is just plain automated “sudo”. I see absolutely no reason to switch if off.
Start the admin PowerShell (absolutely a great tool! which surpasses its Linux analogs, due to might of .NET libraries at least, and due to extremely high usability. It can do everything Python can and bash can, and in extremely convinient way) and then start all stuff you need from the command line.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
IIRC (and I don’t have a machine to try it out on here) you can use the slider on the UAC control panel to turn off the UAC notifications without turning off UAC.
What that means is that anything which wants to elevate will be allowed to silently. But calc will still work, because UAC is on.
There are still tools that don’t try to elevate but where you want to run them elevated (sometimes, or all the time). So those you can:
-
Run them from an elevated command window, which is easy enough to bring up with Win-X A
-
Create a new shortcut that elevates. Find the app you want to run in the start menu, right click and pick “open file location” then copy the LNK, rename it to something easy to type in the start menu, and set the “run as administrator property”. Alternately you can just edit the existing shortcut.
-
Run them elevated from the start menu which, if you have a menu button on your keyboard, you can do with Win menu-key and navigating to Run as Administrator.
I’m not defending UAC - I know why Windows added it and I know lots of people don’t like it. But it’s not that hard to live with. And it has saved me a couple of times from fat-fingering a dangerous command in a CMD window.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:23 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Driver development: Windows 7 or Windows 10
> You’re saying calc.exe will refuse to run in Windows 10 with UAC disabled?
> I find that hard to believe? Then again I’m using XP right now…
Sadly, this is the truth. You can’t even view a jpg image with UAC off under Windows 10. Again, it’s like the union comes out and pickets every simple thing you try to do to punish you for turning UAC off. Everything worked just so nice and well up through Windows 7. Now this.
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>
I’m not defending UAC - I know why Windows added it and I know lots of
people don’t like it. But it’s not that hard to live with. And it has saved me a
couple of times from fat-fingering a dangerous command in a CMD window.
I like it, and normally keep it enabled unless there is a good reason not to. To the point that if there is an application that requires administrator privileges I’ll normally take the time to fire up procmon and find out what things it needs to access that require admin privileges (I’m looking at you, small business finance software)
James
Another method to defeat UAC is to add an explicit ACE to each ACL for the security principal in question. They may be denied access because UAC removed the administrators group and all that it implies from a token, but explicit access is still explicit access.
Assuming that you have reasonable control of the system that you wish to use, and your can predict in advance which ACLed resources you need to use, this method allows you to not care about the state of UAC at all for your development activities while availing yourself of the benefits (i.e. SPAM does not cause a virus infection) for unrelated and uncorrelated programs.
I have used this method since the first release of Vista and it is easy and effective. It does nothing about software with manifests requesting admin - but if those binaries are yours you can easily strip those manifests (for at least some build configurations) and if not you can still strip the manifests or modify your settings to ignore them
Or else you can modify your expectations. I know I can?t work the same way on Windows 10 that I did on AS400 in 1980, so I don?t try.
Sent from Mailhttps: for Windows 10
From: Peter Wielandmailto:xxxxx
Sent: February 9, 2016 9:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest Listmailto:xxxxx
Subject: RE: RE:[ntdev] Driver development: Windows 7 or Windows 10
IIRC (and I don’t have a machine to try it out on here) you can use the slider on the UAC control panel to turn off the UAC notifications without turning off UAC.
What that means is that anything which wants to elevate will be allowed to silently. But calc will still work, because UAC is on.
There are still tools that don’t try to elevate but where you want to run them elevated (sometimes, or all the time). So those you can:
1. Run them from an elevated command window, which is easy enough to bring up with Win-X A
2. Create a new shortcut that elevates. Find the app you want to run in the start menu, right click and pick “open file location” then copy the LNK, rename it to something easy to type in the start menu, and set the “run as administrator property”. Alternately you can just edit the existing shortcut.
3. Run them elevated from the start menu which, if you have a menu button on your keyboard, you can do with Win menu-key and navigating to Run as Administrator.
I’m not defending UAC - I know why Windows added it and I know lots of people don’t like it. But it’s not that hard to live with. And it has saved me a couple of times from fat-fingering a dangerous command in a CMD window.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:23 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Driver development: Windows 7 or Windows 10
> You’re saying calc.exe will refuse to run in Windows 10 with UAC disabled?
> I find that hard to believe? Then again I’m using XP right now…
Sadly, this is the truth. You can’t even view a jpg image with UAC off under Windows 10. Again, it’s like the union comes out and pickets every simple thing you try to do to punish you for turning UAC off. Everything worked just so nice and well up through Windows 7. Now this.
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> Linux fanboy never sleeps?
I am not a “Linux fanboy” - I am a “Windows/MSFT hater”. Therefore, anyone who is not happy about any aspect of Windows usage gets my suggestion to run “defenestration process” in favour of some other OS. The only reason why I suggested Linux here is because it is the most likely “alternative OS” kernel to support the particular harware that the OP may have. Otherwise, I would probably suggest FreeBSD.
In any case, my point was that one does not need to wait for any “smart company” to sort out the problems - as you have already pointed out, what one may get in such case is more than likely to be a locked-down device with “a-la Apple” policies imposed on end user. OTOH, it may well happen that this is exactly what is needed by most of"non-technical" users(at least Apple example seems to suggest so), so that you never know…
And Windows is even simpler - you do not need to type the password each time, just hit
OK in a message box.
Well, everything depends on the frequency with which this MsgBox gets displayed. I think the OP’s point is that this box turns up frequently enough to become, in terms of annoyance, some kind of a pop-up ad that we all have a misfortune to encounter on quite a few websites…
Anton Bassov
> I am not a “Linux fanboy” - I am a “Windows/MSFT hater”.
Much worse for you.
It is OK to have a favourite OS and be a good specialist in it.
But hatred based on nothing…
Well, everything depends on the frequency with which this MsgBox gets displayed.
Once for each “su” and “sudo” invocation in Linux. Not so frequent.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
> I know I can’t work the same way on Windows 10 that I did on AS400 in 1980
I have no idea how the AS/400 entered this discussion as it might suggest a 5250 dumb terminal was ever ideal. And by the way, the AS/400 launched in 1988 and I was working on it at that time so perhaps the date is a bit off. Greatest product launch ever and we even had Pat Summerall announcing the event and our plant manager Larry O was having the time of his life.
This thread is rapidly reaching its conclusion. But just wanted to say I find Peter’s advice very promising and worthwhile.
Don’t bash Bash. I have been amazed at some of the real programming tasks I
have been able to accomplish with bash. I believe I read somewhere that
Microsoft recently released a native (no cgwin) bash for Windows.
On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 1:10 AM wrote:
> > I know I can’t work the same way on Windows 10 that I did on AS400 in
> 1980
>
> I have no idea how the AS/400 entered this discussion as it might suggest
> a 5250 dumb terminal was ever ideal. And by the way, the AS/400 launched in
> 1988 and I was working on it at that time so perhaps the date is a bit off.
> Greatest product launch ever and we even had Pat Summerall announcing the
> event and our plant manager Larry O was having the time of his life.
>
> This thread is rapidly reaching its conclusion. But just wanted to say I
> find Peter’s advice very promising and worthwhile.
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
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> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
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></http:>
> >I am not a “Linux fanboy” - I am a “Windows/MSFT hater”.
Much worse for you.
Must be hard for you to understand it - more on it below…
It is OK to have a favourite OS and be a good specialist in it.
Sorry, but “having a favourite OS” and “thinking of an OS as of a religious symbol” are two different things, don’t you think. Someone whom I would define as an 'XYZ fanboy" firmly belongs in the latter class…
But hatred based on nothing…
Well, Max, this part is, apparently, not so easy for an obsequious,servile sycophant with fawning doglike adoration for an authority of any description who believes that “shepherd knows it better” and associates himself with a “tame calf who sucks from two mothers”,rather than with a human being of a character, intelligence and personality. I know it sounds harsh and, apparently, even offensive and rude, but you have presented your “psychological summary” yourself, and did it in such way that would sound as a rude personal attack if it was voiced by anyone other than yourself
(http://www.osronline.com/showThread.cfm?link=268241, post 99).
Therefore, the only thing that I do here is just providing your own quotations and giving my accessment of anyone who may have a particular vision/attitude presented in above mentioned post.
A person of above mentioned psychological type apparently would not understand the objections of those who are not happy about any attempts to encroach on their freedom. In this context,you can think of the term “freedom” from both developer’s and consmer’s perspective. From the developer’s perspective, this is the freedom of technical self-expresion; from the consumer’s one, this the one to avoid buying something they don’t need and, more recently, even the one to actually own a device they have paid for. Someone of above mentioned psychological type would not understand it - they would brand it as a “hatred based on nothing”…
Anton Bassov
Anton: STFU, you’re just being annoying. If you’re a confirmed Windows Hater, why do you bother posting on a Windows system software list? Just to annoy us?
Max: Don’t feed the troll. You know better.
PeterWie: Thanks for a good suggestion, one I had personally not considered.
Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers
xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> I know I can’t work the same way on Windows 10 that I did on AS400 in 1980
I have no idea how the AS/400 entered this discussion …
The AS/400s were great machines. They offered many technologies that
didn’t arrive in the PC server world until a decade later. However,
they did not exist until 1988.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Peter,
I am really sorry if I hurt your feelings somehow. Please note that I tried my best to avoid directly attacking Windows, MSFT,KMDF or anything else that may possibly be an object of your adoration (I just made a bold assumption that neither calves nor Mr.Shatskih are on the list of above mentioned objects). If I got mistaken abot this I am really sorry …
Anton Bassov