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Windows 10 Checked/Debug version Issues. Need help

Thanos_TitanThanos_Titan Posts: 7
Hello everybody,
I was looking for a Checked version of Windows 10 for a while now and that
went all unsuccessful, here is my story :
After understanding that my "Visual studio Essentials" subscription won't
get me access to stuff i need to begin Driver Development, I decided to
subscribe for a "Visual studio Professional subscription", which i paid a
lot for..., after what i gained access to a Download repository where there
is indeed a downloadable ISO file named "Windows 10 (Multiple Editions)
Debug/Checked, Version 1511", which CANT be installed (I tried on Hyper-V,
VMware, VirtualBox, all went unsuccessful).

Please guys, if any suggestion on what to do ?
Or should i develop only on Windows 7, if so which WDK version is the most
suitable since im using Visual studio 2017 ?

Valar Morghulis !

Comments

  • Jan_BottorffJan_Bottorff Posts: 464
    When you say “can’t be installed”, what specifically do you mean? Did you try installing on real hardware, your list is only for virtual environments.

    The checked build has OFTEN been finicky to install. When I say finicky, I mean things like one version would assert in the WinPE phase on most hardware I tried. The fix was you had to build a new install DVD with debugging enabled on WinPE, so you could continue past the assert. The assert was about an incorrect ACPI table as I remember.

    My experience in the past has been the checked build is painful, but on multiple occasions it has almost instantly found real bugs. Often the issue with the checked build is it finds so many little glitches with so many components (like user mode components too), it’s difficult ignore all the noise from things you don’t care about. Many kernel developers only use a partial checked kernel, which means you just replace some of the normal files, like kernel and hal, with the checked versions.

    To counteract the unavailability of checked builds, driver verifier has improved over the years, as have compile time tools like static driver verifier.

    I’ve noticed there are different philosophies in developers, some want bugs to be hidden or not easily visible, and others want any bugs to stand out boldly. I tend to be in the camp of “show me the bugs as vividly as possible”, because if I don’t know about a bug I can’t fix it. When a manager is applying schedule pressure on a developer, and their choice is an environment that sugar coats everything vs one that makes all the smallest problems brightly visible, I can understand how developers might not want bugs to be visible, as it makes it appear they are done. Unfortunately, bugs a developer doesn’t easily see are still there, and end users then experience the bugs instead.

    Jan

    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com On Behalf Of xxxxx@gmail.com
    Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 8:22 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: [ntdev] Windows 10 Checked/Debug version Issues. Need help

    Hello everybody,
    I was looking for a Checked version of Windows 10 for a while now and that went all unsuccessful, here is my story :
    After understanding that my "Visual studio Essentials" subscription won't get me access to stuff i need to begin Driver Development, I decided to subscribe for a "Visual studio Professional subscription", which i paid a lot for..., after what i gained access to a Download repository where there is indeed a downloadable ISO file named "Windows 10 (Multiple Editions) Debug/Checked, Version 1511", which CANT be installed (I tried on Hyper-V, VMware, VirtualBox, all went unsuccessful).

    Please guys, if any suggestion on what to do ?
    Or should i develop only on Windows 7, if so which WDK version is the most suitable since im using Visual studio 2017 ?

    Valar Morghulis !
    --- NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list online at: MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and software drivers! Details at To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
  • Scott_NooneScott_Noone Posts: 2,989
    Just to be clear: you don't NEED the checked versions of the OS for driver development. Having access to them helps because they add additional validation to the OS which might catch some bugs, but you don't need them.

    -scott
    OSR
    @OSRDrivers
  • Thanos_TitanThanos_Titan Posts: 7
    Thank you Guys for your responses !
    @Snoone : you are saying that i do not need a Checked version of Windows 10
    in order to develop drivers for Windows 10. ok, so how do i debug my driver
    while developing it (Keeping in mind that im new to driver developement) ?
    And what do i need to start up Windows 10 Driver development Safely ?

    Thank you guys !

    Valar Morghulis !

    On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 1:56 PM, xxxxx@osr.com wrote:

    > Just to be clear: you don't NEED the checked versions of the OS for driver
    > development. Having access to them helps because they add additional
    > validation to the OS which might catch some bugs, but you don't need them.
    >
    > -scott
    > OSR
    > @OSRDrivers
    >
    >
    > ---
    > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
    >
    > Visit the list online at: showlists.cfm?list=ntdev>
    >
    > MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
    > software drivers!
    > Details at
    >
    > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
    > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer>;
    >
  • Tim_RobertsTim_Roberts Posts: 12,566
    xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    > @Snoone : you are saying that i do not need a Checked version of
    > Windows 10 in order to develop drivers for Windows 10.

    Of course not.


    > ok, so how do i debug my driver while developing it (Keeping in mind
    > that im new to driver developement) ?

    You need the kernel debugger.  The kernel debugger has been built-in to
    every version of Windows since the VERY beginning.  The checked build
    just adds a lot more parameter validation and consistency checking, and
    triggers blue screens in unusual conditions where the free build would
    continue to operate.  It's been 15 years since I loaded a checked build.


    > And what do i need to start up Windows 10 Driver development Safely ?

    You need Visual Studio, you need the WDK, you need an editor, and you
    need the debugging tools.  Are you starting from a sample?

    --
    Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

    Tim Roberts, [email protected]
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

  • Scott_NooneScott_Noone Posts: 2,989
    Here's the information related to setting up the kernel debugger:

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/debugger/getting-started-with-windbg--kernel-mode-

    A few points:

    1. Don't try to use USB 2.0. The documentation talks about it like it's a
    viable option, but it's not

    2. Don't try to use Visual Studio as the debugger. Use WinDbg and you'll
    save yourself from grief

    3. Whatever debug transport you choose, make sure you follow the
    instructions for setting up the connection manually. Do not try to use the
    deployment wizard in Visual Studio to set up debugging.

    4. Expect this to take a while to get working the first time. After you've
    done it a few times you'll wonder why it took you so long the first time :)

    -scott
    OSR
    @OSRDrivers
  • Thanos_TitanThanos_Titan Posts: 7
    Hello Guys !
    I am sorry for my late reply,
    Just to let you know i installed a Free version of Windows 10, after
    setting up the Debug environement in it it finally worked ! :D
    I really appreciate your help guys !
    Thank you :)

    Valar Morghulis !

    On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Scott Noone <
    xxxxx@lists.osr.com> wrote:

    > Here's the information related to setting up the kernel debugger:
    >
    > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/de
    > bugger/getting-started-with-windbg--kernel-mode-
    >
    > A few points:
    >
    > 1. Don't try to use USB 2.0. The documentation talks about it like it's a
    > viable option, but it's not
    >
    > 2. Don't try to use Visual Studio as the debugger. Use WinDbg and you'll
    > save yourself from grief
    >
    > 3. Whatever debug transport you choose, make sure you follow the
    > instructions for setting up the connection manually. Do not try to use the
    > deployment wizard in Visual Studio to set up debugging.
    >
    > 4. Expect this to take a while to get working the first time. After you've
    > done it a few times you'll wonder why it took you so long the first time :)
    >
    >
    > -scott
    > OSR
    > @OSRDrivers
    >
    > ---
    > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
    >
    > Visit the list online at: lists.cfm?list=ntdev>
    >
    > MONTHLY seminars on crash dump analysis, WDF, Windows internals and
    > software drivers!
    > Details at
    >
    > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <
    > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer>;
    >
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