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Critical Shutdown?

Taed_WynnellTaed_Wynnell Member Posts: 105
I'm trying to understand the shutdown process due to high CPU
temperature, but can't find any documentation or description of it.

In WinDbg, I've found the !tz and !tzinfo commands to dump the ACPI
thermal critical trip point and so on. But I can't find any
documentation that describes the "thermal zone information structure"
(such as how it gets its information, and so on).

I did come across the sentence "Note that the power policy manager has a
hard-coded policy to initiate a CriticalShutdownOff whenever any thermal
zone indicates a critical thermal condition."

That then begs the question, "What is a CriticalShutdownOff?" I
couldn't find any documentation or mention of that (not even with
Google) except for that one page. Even "CriticalShutdown" only gives
one hit in MSDN.

Can anyone explain a Windows critical shutdown or point me to some
documentation? For example, how it differs from a normal shutdown, what
would trigger a critical shutdown, any possible callback registration,
etc.

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • Konstantin_YoprstKonstantin_Yoprst Member Posts: 18
    Critical Shutdown?I don't have any answers, but there may be something related to this: at least back in Windows 2000, hitting the power button on a desktop PC would initiate an "emergency shutdown" - a quick flush of write buffers on the disk and an immediate ACPI halt. Maybe you can find some relevant information on that.
    "Taed Wynnell" wrote in message news:[email protected]
    I'm trying to understand the shutdown process due to high CPU temperature, but can't find any documentation or description of it.

    In WinDbg, I've found the !tz and !tzinfo commands to dump the ACPI thermal critical trip point and so on. But I can't find any documentation that describes the "thermal zone information structure" (such as how it gets its information, and so on).

    I did come across the sentence "Note that the power policy manager has a hard-coded policy to initiate a CriticalShutdownOff whenever any thermal zone indicates a critical thermal condition."

    That then begs the question, "What is a CriticalShutdownOff?" I couldn't find any documentation or mention of that (not even with Google) except for that one page. Even "CriticalShutdown" only gives one hit in MSDN.

    Can anyone explain a Windows critical shutdown or point me to some documentation? For example, how it differs from a normal shutdown, what would trigger a critical shutdown, any possible callback registration, etc.

    Thanks in advance!
  • Doron_HolanDoron_Holan Member - All Emails Posts: 10,582
    Hitting the power button should initiate a normal system shutdown, perhaps you are confusing this with a UPS button. I asked the power folks and here is the answer I got

    It's a kernel-level only shutdown. We skip apps/services (because we can't risk the time) and only do basic low-level shutdown operations (flushing anything cached in RAM to disk, making sure the file system is consistent, etc.) -- basically everything we need to do to make sure the system remains consistent and you can cleanly boot again later.

    Usermode apps can definitely lose data, but the rationale is that this is a better situation than bricking the entire system.

    So to answer the OP's question, there is nothing you can register for that will tell you that a critical shutdown is occurring. That would introduce new timings and delays that (IMHO) are not needed in this scenario

    d

    From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of comrade
    Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:11 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: Re:[ntdev] Critical Shutdown?

    I don't have any answers, but there may be something related to this: at least back in Windows 2000, hitting the power button on a desktop PC would initiate an "emergency shutdown" - a quick flush of write buffers on the disk and an immediate ACPI halt. Maybe you can find some relevant information on that.
    "Taed Wynnell" > wrote in message news:[email protected]

    I'm trying to understand the shutdown process due to high CPU temperature, but can't find any documentation or description of it.

    In WinDbg, I've found the !tz and !tzinfo commands to dump the ACPI thermal critical trip point and so on. But I can't find any documentation that describes the "thermal zone information structure" (such as how it gets its information, and so on).

    I did come across the sentence "Note that the power policy manager has a hard-coded policy to initiate a CriticalShutdownOff whenever any thermal zone indicates a critical thermal condition."

    That then begs the question, "What is a CriticalShutdownOff?" I couldn't find any documentation or mention of that (not even with Google) except for that one page. Even "CriticalShutdown" only gives one hit in MSDN.

    Can anyone explain a Windows critical shutdown or point me to some documentation? For example, how it differs from a normal shutdown, what would trigger a critical shutdown, any possible callback registration, etc.

    Thanks in advance!

    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
    d
  • Taed_WynnellTaed_Wynnell Member Posts: 105
    Good thinking, but it didn't work out. I just looked at that -- I think
    you're talking about the Display Control Panel | Power Options | Advanced |
    "When I press the power button" ... "Shutdown". But that just seems to do a
    clean shutdown, not a critical one. (Critical shutdowns are semi-immediate;
    I see shutdown handlers get called, but other than that, they are basically
    instantaneous and show up as "abnormal shutdowns" in the event log.)

    Thanks anyway!


    "comrade" wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Critical Shutdown?I don't have any answers, but there may be something
    related to this: at least back in Windows 2000, hitting the power button on
    a desktop PC would initiate an "emergency shutdown" - a quick flush of write
    buffers on the disk and an immediate ACPI halt. Maybe you can find some
    relevant information on that.

    "Taed Wynnell" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    I'm trying to understand the shutdown process due to high CPU temperature,
    but can't find any documentation or description of it.

    In WinDbg, I've found the !tz and !tzinfo commands to dump the ACPI
    thermal critical trip point and so on. But I can't find any documentation
    that describes the "thermal zone information structure" (such as how it gets
    its information, and so on).

    I did come across the sentence "Note that the power policy manager has a
    hard-coded policy to initiate a CriticalShutdownOff whenever any thermal
    zone indicates a critical thermal condition."

    That then begs the question, "What is a CriticalShutdownOff?" I couldn't
    find any documentation or mention of that (not even with Google) except for
    that one page. Even "CriticalShutdown" only gives one hit in MSDN.

    Can anyone explain a Windows critical shutdown or point me to some
    documentation? For example, how it differs from a normal shutdown, what
    would trigger a critical shutdown, any possible callback registration, etc.

    Thanks in advance!
  • afrolenkovafrolenkov Member Posts: 2
    I believe high temperature shutdowns may be triggered by activating SMM mode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode) code. I am not 100% sure, but this would be appropriate and would explain why you see no trace of the Critical Shutdown.

    -A Frolenkov.
  • Taed_WynnellTaed_Wynnell Member Posts: 105
    That's exactly the information that I've been looking for! Thank you so
    much! (I've had a Microsoft support case open for nearly 2 months trying to
    get that information...)

    The follow-on question is: What, other than an ACPI thermal critical trip
    point, would cause a Critical Shutdown?

    The quick background on my issue is that we've seen a few systems do this
    sudden Critical Shutdown in the field, and we know it's not
    temperature-related since we've been monitoring the temperature and it never
    gets anywhere near the 95C trip point. So, we want to understand why we see
    this occasional shutdown. We've seen it on about 5 machines, but only once
    per machine, so it's not reproducible or reoccurring, and so doesn't seem to
    be environmental or some problem with the machines.


    "Doron Holan" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    Hitting the power button should initiate a normal system shutdown, perhaps
    you are confusing this with a UPS button. I asked the power folks and here
    is the answer I got

    It's a kernel-level only shutdown. We skip apps/services (because we can't
    risk the time) and only do basic low-level shutdown operations (flushing
    anything cached in RAM to disk, making sure the file system is consistent,
    etc.) -- basically everything we need to do to make sure the system remains
    consistent and you can cleanly boot again later.

    Usermode apps can definitely lose data, but the rationale is that this is a
    better situation than bricking the entire system.

    So to answer the OP's question, there is nothing you can register for that
    will tell you that a critical shutdown is occurring. That would introduce
    new timings and delays that (IMHO) are not needed in this scenario

    d

    From: [email protected]
    [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of comrade
    Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:11 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: Re:[ntdev] Critical Shutdown?

    I don't have any answers, but there may be something related to this: at
    least back in Windows 2000, hitting the power button on a desktop PC would
    initiate an "emergency shutdown" - a quick flush of write buffers on the
    disk and an immediate ACPI halt. Maybe you can find some relevant
    information on that.
    "Taed Wynnell" > wrote
    in message news:[email protected]

    I'm trying to understand the shutdown process due to high CPU temperature,
    but can't find any documentation or description of it.

    In WinDbg, I've found the !tz and !tzinfo commands to dump the ACPI thermal
    critical trip point and so on. But I can't find any documentation that
    describes the "thermal zone information structure" (such as how it gets its
    information, and so on).

    I did come across the sentence "Note that the power policy manager has a
    hard-coded policy to initiate a CriticalShutdownOff whenever any thermal
    zone indicates a critical thermal condition."

    That then begs the question, "What is a CriticalShutdownOff?" I couldn't
    find any documentation or mention of that (not even with Google) except for
    that one page. Even "CriticalShutdown" only gives one hit in MSDN.

    Can anyone explain a Windows critical shutdown or point me to some
    documentation? For example, how it differs from a normal shutdown, what
    would trigger a critical shutdown, any possible callback registration, etc.

    Thanks in advance!

    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
    http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    > The follow-on question is: What, other than an ACPI thermal
    > critical trip point, would cause a Critical Shutdown?

    I know if you type "restart" in an ems console, the system goes down much
    more rapidly than if you do shutdown from the gui.

    Jan
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