How is WinPE distributed? Is it available in the MSDN Universal
subscription?
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
Gary,
It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
(either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product). Of
course the WinPE group, completing ignores the fact that since their
environment is just different enough, not all device drivers work correctly.
The assholes in this group will tell customers to get a peripheral from a
platinum vendor, since it obvously the poor vendor (who doesn’t have acceess
to WinPE) that is at fault that the driver doesn’t run in an environment
they cannot get. The same assholes are also good at making sure the
platinum customer knows that they are not supposed to let poor little vendoe
have access except under controlled cirumstances (like being at the platinum
customers facility).
If this wasn’t bad enough now, the fact that Microsoft has both been
pushing WinPE (talk at WinHEC) as well as indicating that they will use
stripped down Windows (sounds like WinPE to me) in a lot of new products and
technologies. So if you are lucky enough to have not hit the joys of it
don’t work with WinPE you probably will in the future.
My only suggestion is you debug your driver for Windows Install, since
this is a version of WinPE. This will not cover all cases, but if you are
clean with install, it can help.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Gary G. Little” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> How is WinPE distributed? Is it available in the MSDN Universal
> subscription?
>
>
> –
> The personal opinion of
> Gary G. Little
>
>
Thanks Don. I’m asking because Seagate has need to move in that direction
and it looks as if we will be using for something that will include the
driver work I am doing. I to recall it being talked about at the last DevCon
I attended, but cannot, of course find it in the Universal MSDN I have.
–
Gary G. Little
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Gary,
>
> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
> (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product). Of
> course the WinPE group, completing ignores the fact that since their
> environment is just different enough, not all device drivers work
> correctly. The assholes in this group will tell customers to get a
> peripheral from a platinum vendor, since it obvously the poor vendor (who
> doesn’t have acceess to WinPE) that is at fault that the driver doesn’t
> run in an environment they cannot get. The same assholes are also good at
> making sure the platinum customer knows that they are not supposed to let
> poor little vendoe have access except under controlled cirumstances (like
> being at the platinum customers facility).
>
> If this wasn’t bad enough now, the fact that Microsoft has both been
> pushing WinPE (talk at WinHEC) as well as indicating that they will use
> stripped down Windows (sounds like WinPE to me) in a lot of new products
> and technologies. So if you are lucky enough to have not hit the joys of
> it don’t work with WinPE you probably will in the future.
>
> My only suggestion is you debug your driver for Windows Install, since
> this is a version of WinPE. This will not cover all cases, but if you are
> clean with install, it can help.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>
> “Gary G. Little” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>> How is WinPE distributed? Is it available in the MSDN Universal
>> subscription?
>>
>>
>> –
>> The personal opinion of
>> Gary G. Little
>>
>>
>
>
>
Don Burn wrote:
It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
(either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product).
Sorry, but unless this is a VERY recent development, this is not correct.
Last time I checked, WinPE was available to “OEM System Builders” and
was available through the “partner” program.
Of course, this could have changed.
Peter
OSR
Don Burn wrote:
It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
(either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product). Of
course the WinPE group, completing ignores the fact that since their
environment is just different enough, not all device drivers work correctly.
The assholes in this group will tell customers to get a peripheral from a
platinum vendor, since it obvously the poor vendor (who doesn’t have acceess
to WinPE) that is at fault that the driver doesn’t run in an environment
they cannot get. The same assholes are also good at making sure the
platinum customer knows that they are not supposed to let poor little vendoe
have access except under controlled cirumstances (like being at the platinum
customers facility).
Don’t hold back, Don. Tell us how you REALLY feel.
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Yes, and try to get into the OEM System Builder program and you find that
you need to be close to a platinum account. I may have a few of the details
wrong, but the bottom line is unless you buy a lot of product, or have
extremely good connections you cannot get WinPE. I know of firms in the low
end partner programs who could not get WinPE, but had the people in that
group telling platinum customers well if their drivers don’t work, drop them
as a vendor!!!
Unfortunately, even well witten drivers (I can think of one from a company
called OSR) that have been WHQL’d and extensively tested including in a
Windows Installation environment, can still fail with WinPE, and then the
small vendor or driver writer consultant is the one who suffers.
This is one of the stupidest things Microsoft has ever done, create an
environment that takes third party drivers, but not provide the driver
writers a way to test of debug on the environment.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“PeterGV (OSR)” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Don Burn wrote:
>>
>> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
>> (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product).
>
> Sorry, but unless this is a VERY recent development, this is not correct.
>
> Last time I checked, WinPE was available to “OEM System Builders” and was
> available through the “partner” program.
>
> Of course, this could have changed.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
Tim,
I suggested to Microsoft for DevCon that they hold a legal weenies
roast. Where the marketing and legal folks who create the idiotic rules
that cause problems (such as WinPE), were forced into a room where
developers could air their complaints. It was decided that none of the
folks needed would attend, and if they did they might be literally be burned
at the stake.
–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
“Tim Roberts” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Don Burn wrote:
>
>> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for Microsoft
>> (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of product). Of
>> course the WinPE group, completing ignores the fact that since their
>> environment is just different enough, not all device drivers work
>> correctly. The assholes in this group will tell customers to get a
>> peripheral from a platinum vendor, since it obvously the poor vendor (who
>> doesn’t have acceess to WinPE) that is at fault that the driver doesn’t
>> run in an environment they cannot get. The same assholes are also good
>> at making sure the platinum customer knows that they are not supposed to
>> let poor little vendoe have access except under controlled cirumstances
>> (like being at the platinum customers facility).
>>
>
> Don’t hold back, Don. Tell us how you REALLY feel.
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
>
Doron, PeterW, are you fellas reading this thread? In Seagate’s case, our
contacts in Microsoft have told us that we need WinPE to do what we need to
do, but have failed to tell us how to obtain WinPE, and from what I am
finding here, the way is obscure and needs a guide to journey though the
dark forest on that journey down the Yellow Brick road.
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Yes, and try to get into the OEM System Builder program and you find that
> you need to be close to a platinum account. I may have a few of the
> details wrong, but the bottom line is unless you buy a lot of product, or
> have extremely good connections you cannot get WinPE. I know of firms in
> the low end partner programs who could not get WinPE, but had the people
> in that group telling platinum customers well if their drivers don’t work,
> drop them as a vendor!!!
>
> Unfortunately, even well witten drivers (I can think of one from a company
> called OSR) that have been WHQL’d and extensively tested including in a
> Windows Installation environment, can still fail with WinPE, and then the
> small vendor or driver writer consultant is the one who suffers.
>
> This is one of the stupidest things Microsoft has ever done, create an
> environment that takes third party drivers, but not provide the driver
> writers a way to test of debug on the environment.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>
> “PeterGV (OSR)” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>> Don Burn wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for
>>> Microsoft (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of
>>> product).
>>
>> Sorry, but unless this is a VERY recent development, this is not correct.
>>
>> Last time I checked, WinPE was available to “OEM System Builders” and was
>> available through the “partner” program.
>>
>> Of course, this could have changed.
>>
>> Peter
>> OSR
>>
>>
>
>
>
i have seen the thread and I think don’s comments, afaik are correct.
WinPE is not a general distribution, it is for pre install environments
like an OEM factory floor. The request to distribute winpe has come up
before and has been rebuffed each time by the team. I can ask again
w/the slant of how our ISVs actually test in it to see if there is any
traction.
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Gary G. Little
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WinPE
Doron, PeterW, are you fellas reading this thread? In Seagate’s case,
our
contacts in Microsoft have told us that we need WinPE to do what we need
to
do, but have failed to tell us how to obtain WinPE, and from what I am
finding here, the way is obscure and needs a guide to journey though the
dark forest on that journey down the Yellow Brick road.
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Yes, and try to get into the OEM System Builder program and you find
that
> you need to be close to a platinum account. I may have a few of the
> details wrong, but the bottom line is unless you buy a lot of product,
or
> have extremely good connections you cannot get WinPE. I know of firms
in
> the low end partner programs who could not get WinPE, but had the
people
> in that group telling platinum customers well if their drivers don’t
work,
> drop them as a vendor!!!
>
> Unfortunately, even well witten drivers (I can think of one from a
company
> called OSR) that have been WHQL’d and extensively tested including in
a
> Windows Installation environment, can still fail with WinPE, and then
the
> small vendor or driver writer consultant is the one who suffers.
>
> This is one of the stupidest things Microsoft has ever done, create an
> environment that takes third party drivers, but not provide the driver
> writers a way to test of debug on the environment.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>
> “PeterGV (OSR)” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>> Don Burn wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for
>>> Microsoft (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of
>>> product).
>>
>> Sorry, but unless this is a VERY recent development, this is not
correct.
>>
>> Last time I checked, WinPE was available to “OEM System Builders” and
was
>> available through the “partner” program.
>>
>> Of course, this could have changed.
>>
>> Peter
>> OSR
>>
>>
>
>
>
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
It might be helpful to point out to the WinPE team that closing out
smaller players in the market might appear (on the surface) to be an
anti-competitive stance and might even appear to outside regulators as a
form of collusion with other large companies to squelch competition.
Whether true or not, the plausible possibility of such an interpretation
would suggest that the conservative and cautious approach is to make
such builds available for testing - through some reasonable mechanism -
to smaller organizations building products that might run in a WinPE
environment.
Ah, where is my copy of “The Prince and the Discourses” when I need an
apropos quotation…
Regards,
Tony
Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Doron Holan
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 4:12 PM
To: ntdev redirect
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WinPE
i have seen the thread and I think don’s comments, afaik are correct.
WinPE is not a general distribution, it is for pre install environments
like an OEM factory floor. The request to distribute winpe has come up
before and has been rebuffed each time by the team. I can ask again
w/the slant of how our ISVs actually test in it to see if there is any
traction.
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Gary G. Little
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:04 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WinPE
Doron, PeterW, are you fellas reading this thread? In Seagate’s case,
our
contacts in Microsoft have told us that we need WinPE to do what we need
to
do, but have failed to tell us how to obtain WinPE, and from what I am
finding here, the way is obscure and needs a guide to journey though the
dark forest on that journey down the Yellow Brick road.
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Yes, and try to get into the OEM System Builder program and you find
that
> you need to be close to a platinum account. I may have a few of the
> details wrong, but the bottom line is unless you buy a lot of product,
or
> have extremely good connections you cannot get WinPE. I know of firms
in
> the low end partner programs who could not get WinPE, but had the
people
> in that group telling platinum customers well if their drivers don’t
work,
> drop them as a vendor!!!
>
> Unfortunately, even well witten drivers (I can think of one from a
company
> called OSR) that have been WHQL’d and extensively tested including in
a
> Windows Installation environment, can still fail with WinPE, and then
the
> small vendor or driver writer consultant is the one who suffers.
>
> This is one of the stupidest things Microsoft has ever done, create an
> environment that takes third party drivers, but not provide the driver
> writers a way to test of debug on the environment.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>
> “PeterGV (OSR)” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>> Don Burn wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not distributed unless you are a platinum accout for
>>> Microsoft (either a big systems company or huge firm buying lots of
>>> product).
>>
>> Sorry, but unless this is a VERY recent development, this is not
correct.
>>
>> Last time I checked, WinPE was available to “OEM System Builders” and
was
>> available through the “partner” program.
>>
>> Of course, this could have changed.
>>
>> Peter
>> OSR
>>
>>
>
>
>
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: unknown lmsubst tag argument:
‘’
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Gary,
you could think about using something like PE builder. In such a case you
would not need to have
platinum (or whatever) membership, the only requirement is - your customer
should have valid XP or 2003
license and original (or legal copy) Windows CD to build PE installation
from.
Also if you’re just starting your project you may write it portable. And
allow your customers to select - WinPE
or Linux. We’ve been participating in a couple of projects using PE or CE.
All of them ended with Linux as
target OS in some of the big version increments.
Regards,
Anton Kolomyeytsev
CEO, Rocket Division Software
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Gary G. Little
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:05 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WinPE
How is WinPE distributed? Is it available in the MSDN Universal
subscription?
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@voliacable.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com