A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver will
be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will not
support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
Sure. There’s nothing in the WHQL certification that says that you even need
to run the code on more than one machine. If it works on that machine, it’s
certified. And if that machine happens to be a single processor machine,
then you’ve passed without even trying to make it work on Multiprocessors.
The poing about WHQL is to test that it works with Windows, not that it
works with any particular hardware. At least that’s how I understand it.
Of course, if you want to thoroughly test your driver, you probably want to
run it on several different systems, including MP systems, different memory
configs, different manufacturers of processors, etc.
–
Mats
-----Original Message-----
From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:31 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WHQL CertificationA company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the
driver will
be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will not
support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
- Steve -
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It is
absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of restriction.
=====================
Mark Roddy
-----Original Message-----
From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WHQL CertificationA company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the
driver will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that
the driver will not support multiprocessor machines. My
question is can a driver that doesn’t support multiprocessors
be WHQL certified?
- Steve -
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Agreed. The only VALID case for a “not supporting MP” would be if it’s a
chipset driver and the chipset only supports one processor…
Any driver that drives something that plugs into a machine, be it via USB,
AGP, PCI, Parallel port, should be able to plug into any machine, single or
multiprocessor, without any limitation. Same obviously applies to when the
driver doesn’t have any hardware to drive, like filter drivers or such.
Same applies for testing and supporting both AMD and Intel processors
(assuming it makes a difference).
Sorry, should have made that point in my previous mail.
–
Mats
-----Original Message-----
From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:15 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL CertificationRegardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP
qualification. It is
absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of restriction.=====================
Mark Roddy> -----Original Message-----
> From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the
> driver will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that
> the driver will not support multiprocessor machines. My
> question is can a driver that doesn’t support multiprocessors
> be WHQL certified?
>
> - Steve -
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
designed correctly from the start.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
restriction.
=====================
Mark Roddy
-----Original Message-----
From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] WHQL CertificationA company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
- Steve -
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
In fact, a driver that doesn’t support MP will certainly barf on a
hyperthreaded machine, even if it only has one processor.
Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of
xxxxx@3Dlabs.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:26 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
Agreed. The only VALID case for a “not supporting MP” would be if it’s a
chipset driver and the chipset only supports one processor…
Any driver that drives something that plugs into a machine, be it via USB,
AGP, PCI, Parallel port, should be able to plug into any machine, single or
multiprocessor, without any limitation. Same obviously applies to when the
driver doesn’t have any hardware to drive, like filter drivers or such.
Same applies for testing and supporting both AMD and Intel processors
(assuming it makes a difference).
Sorry, should have made that point in my previous mail.
–
Mats
-----Original Message-----
From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:15 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL CertificationRegardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP
qualification. It is
absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of restriction.=====================
Mark Roddy> -----Original Message-----
> From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the
> driver will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that
> the driver will not support multiprocessor machines. My
> question is can a driver that doesn’t support multiprocessors
> be WHQL certified?
>
> - Steve -
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.
When the OP asked his question, I went looking at the HCT guidelines and was
surprised to not see multiprocessor testing listed as a requirement (note it
could be in there but it is not obvious). Maybe WHQL is responsible for
Microsoft extending the life of Win98!
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
----- Original Message -----
From: “Peter Wieland”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
designed correctly from the start.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
restriction.
=====================
Mark Roddy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
> not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
> doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
>
> - Steve -
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Let me guess … the company is in a certain land far across the great pond
to the west of California. Good luck if it’s the company with which I am
currently dealing … you wouldn’t want them to write the driver for an
electric butt-wiper. Had I something to say about your driver writer, they
wouldn’t. NOT supporting SMP, whether or not it is Whaled, is lazy and
totally intolerable when P4’s in a $600 Dell have HT technology. I think the
name of that company should be published so we can publicly humiliate them.
Sorry … but I really sick to death and totally tired of dealing with
crappy, in excusable drivers developed in a land far across the great pond
to the west of California.
–
Gary G. Little
“Whitman, Steve” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver will
be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will not
support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
- Steve -
Damn … “Whaled” = “WHQL’d”
Gary
“Gary G. Little” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Let me guess … the company is in a certain land far across the great
pond
> to the west of California. Good luck if it’s the company with which I am
> currently dealing … you wouldn’t want them to write the driver for an
> electric butt-wiper. Had I something to say about your driver writer, they
> wouldn’t. NOT supporting SMP, whether or not it is Whaled, is lazy and
> totally intolerable when P4’s in a $600 Dell have HT technology. I think
the
> name of that company should be published so we can publicly humiliate
them.
>
> Sorry … but I really sick to death and totally tired of dealing with
> crappy, in excusable drivers developed in a land far across the great pond
> to the west of California.
>
> –
> Gary G. Little
>
> “Whitman, Steve” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver will
> be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will not
> support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
> doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
>
> - Steve -
>
>
>
>
> ----------
From: xxxxx@sbcglobal.net[SMTP:xxxxx@sbcglobal.net]
Reply To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:49 PM
To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WHQL CertificationSorry … but I really sick to death and totally tired of dealing with
crappy, in excusable drivers developed in a land far across the great pond
to the west of California.
Well, I’m not sure if there is a correlation between driver quality and a
land where developers live (have seen crappy software developed in
California 
but Gary is right not supporting SMP is intolerable. This is a
sign of incompetence.
Recently I had to deal with driver for USB -> serial converter which worked
on single CPU machine and “reliably” crashed on my SMP one. It was normal
shipped version with no warning about SMP. Coincidentally, it was developed
in a land in direction Gary mentioned. I can’t publish company name because
forgot it and don’t know what we did with this crap.
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
STMicroelectronics Design and Application s.r.o.
[michal.vodicka@st.com, http:://www.st.com]
It’s actually a mobile-machine issue. Lots of drivers run only on machines
which can’t possibly have more than one logical processor. So qualifying
those drivers would be impossible.
–
Jake Oshins
Windows Base Kernel Team
This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no rights.
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> When the OP asked his question, I went looking at the HCT guidelines and
was
> surprised to not see multiprocessor testing listed as a requirement (note
it
> could be in there but it is not obvious). Maybe WHQL is responsible for
> Microsoft extending the life of Win98!
>
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Peter Wieland”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
>
> particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
> and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> designed correctly from the start.
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
> is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> restriction.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
> > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
>
> > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> >
> > - Steve -
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
>
Interesting, it is going to be fun when the HT mobile chips come out. Of
couse I’ve been hering all kinds of fun incidents with HT systems in general
with drivers that never were tested for MP.
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jake Oshins”
Newsgroups: ntdev
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WHQL Certification
> It’s actually a mobile-machine issue. Lots of drivers run only on
machines
> which can’t possibly have more than one logical processor. So qualifying
> those drivers would be impossible.
>
> –
> Jake Oshins
> Windows Base Kernel Team
>
> This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
>
> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > When the OP asked his question, I went looking at the HCT guidelines and
> was
> > surprised to not see multiprocessor testing listed as a requirement
(note
> it
> > could be in there but it is not obvious). Maybe WHQL is responsible for
> > Microsoft extending the life of Win98!
> >
> > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> > Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: “Peter Wieland”
> > To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> >
> > particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> > very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> > your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
> > and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> > designed correctly from the start.
> >
> > -p
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
> > is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> > restriction.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> > >
> > > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
> > > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
> >
> > > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> > >
> > > - Steve -
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> > unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Correct me if I am wrong, Jake, but with the proliferation of the P4 with
hyper threading, is this not going to change? I would assume that HT enabled
processors will be going into laptops and notebooks, which denigrates the
reliance of such developers on uni-processor software products for those
mobile items. The point of testing code under SMP is quality: to ensure the
user that windows of opportunity have been firmly nailed shut. Very tiny
windows in a single processor tend to be greatly magnified as you add
processors, at least this has been my experience. Only relying on SMP is
also fool hardy, since the defacto standard right now seems to be testing
under SMP or HT using Driver Verifier with the checked build of the HAL and
the kernel.
I think the issue is not one of QUALIFYING or a WHQL blessing on SMP
compliance, but that the software delivered has been tested and will
function in a multi-processor environment. The impression I got from the OP
was that the developing company was going to brag about WHQL but not support
the OP if he ran the sortware in an SMP machine. This simply bespeaks of
poor quality, which seems to be a major problem with the companies doing
development in the tomorrow time zone. I’m currently doing battle with
Twinkie Software, Inc. over these very same issues, so maybe I am a bit
sensitive.
One never knows when the next PDA one buys will have an Ultra-Subspace
quantum threading processor, and will be your smartphone and
smart-transporter all rolled into one.
–
Gary G. Little
“Jake Oshins” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> It’s actually a mobile-machine issue. Lots of drivers run only on
machines
> which can’t possibly have more than one logical processor. So qualifying
> those drivers would be impossible.
>
> –
> Jake Oshins
> Windows Base Kernel Team
>
> This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
>
> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > When the OP asked his question, I went looking at the HCT guidelines and
> was
> > surprised to not see multiprocessor testing listed as a requirement
(note
> it
> > could be in there but it is not obvious). Maybe WHQL is responsible for
> > Microsoft extending the life of Win98!
> >
> > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> > Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: “Peter Wieland”
> > To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:29 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> >
> > particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> > very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> > your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
> > and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> > designed correctly from the start.
> >
> > -p
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
> > is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> > restriction.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> > >
> > > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
> > > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
> >
> > > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> > >
> > > - Steve -
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> > unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
Actually the company is a very large company that is based in the US.
They supply this driver as part of one of their product kits. Luckily
we have access to the source code so I plan to resolve the MP issue
myself.
I would love to state the name but I would probably be violating our
NDA.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary G. Little [mailto:xxxxx@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:49 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WHQL Certification
Let me guess … the company is in a certain land far across the great
pond
to the west of California. Good luck if it’s the company with which I am
currently dealing … you wouldn’t want them to write the driver for an
electric butt-wiper. Had I something to say about your driver writer,
they
wouldn’t. NOT supporting SMP, whether or not it is Whaled, is lazy and
totally intolerable when P4’s in a $600 Dell have HT technology. I think
the
name of that company should be published so we can publicly humiliate
them.
Sorry … but I really sick to death and totally tired of dealing with
crappy, in excusable drivers developed in a land far across the great
pond
to the west of California.
–
Gary G. Little
“Whitman, Steve” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver will
be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will not
support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
- Steve -
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cognex.com
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> Any driver that drives something that plugs into a machine, be it via USB,
AGP, PCI, Parallel port, should be able to plug into any machine, single or
multiprocessor, without any limitation. Same obviously applies to when the
Nevertheless, even large companies like ZyXEL wrote and ship uniprocessor-only
drivers for their WinModems, and start to provide patches only when HT become
common and the usual desktop starts to be SMP.
Surely, ZyXEL calls such a patch - A New Technology Driver For Hyperthreading
or such
BTW - this is one of the causes why I hate WinModems, be they dialup or ADSL.
ZyXEL is OK as a company, but soft-modems are a bad idea in principle.
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
Anyway - if the company imposes such a limitation on drivers they made,
this means that they have no capable driver developers in staff. Absolutely.
Outsource this driver to some more capable company (where there is at least
1 DDK MVP :-)) and then never use that first company for any system-level
complex software tasks, only for ASP or PHP programming
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: “Peter Wieland”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go back
> and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> designed correctly from the start.
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification. It
> is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> restriction.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver will
> > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver that
>
> > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> >
> > - Steve -
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
But shouldn’t SMP testing be performed on any driver that can be used in
a non-mobile machine? What about workstation and server class machines?
It had always been my assumption until yesterday that if a driver was
signed for XP then it was at least tested under WHQL using an SMP
machine (as well as numerous other tests). But what you are saying is
that it is not.
What that tells me is that a Microsoft signed driver no better than a
non-signed driver. Both are likely to fail or run but the fact it is
signed doesn’t provide me any clues to which scenario I will experience.
I also looked at the WHQL testing requirements and the only thing I
noticed that might even imply that SMP (or HT) is a requirement was a
statement that a driver is to conform to the DDK documentation. And
since the DDK specifically speaks to designing for an SMP machine one
might infer that SMP is a WHQL requirement.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Oshins [mailto:xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:29 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] WHQL Certification
It’s actually a mobile-machine issue. Lots of drivers run only on
machines
which can’t possibly have more than one logical processor. So
qualifying
those drivers would be impossible.
–
Jake Oshins
Windows Base Kernel Team
This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> When the OP asked his question, I went looking at the HCT guidelines
and
was
> surprised to not see multiprocessor testing listed as a requirement
(note
it
> could be in there but it is not obvious). Maybe WHQL is responsible
for
> Microsoft extending the life of Win98!
>
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Peter Wieland”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
>
> particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go
back
> and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> designed correctly from the start.
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification.
It
> is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> restriction.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver
will
> > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver
that
>
> > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> >
> > - Steve -
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
>
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cognex.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Hmmm… It sounds familiar, I’m sure I used one once, long ago, but what the
heck is a ‘modem’
=====================
Mark Roddy
-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 1:17 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WHQL Certification> Any driver that drives something that plugs into a machine,
be it via
> USB, AGP, PCI, Parallel port, should be able to plug into
any machine,
> single or multiprocessor, without any limitation. Same obviously
> applies to when theNevertheless, even large companies like ZyXEL wrote and ship
uniprocessor-only drivers for their WinModems, and start to
provide patches only when HT become common and the usual
desktop starts to be SMP.Surely, ZyXEL calls such a patch - A New Technology Driver
For Hyperthreading or suchBTW - this is one of the causes why I hate WinModems, be they
dialup or ADSL.
ZyXEL is OK as a company, but soft-modems are a bad idea in principle.Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
xxxxx@lists.osr.com
My favorite on this, is from a company in the locale of Gary Little’s
favorite firms. They actually had the following code in their DriverEntry:
if (*KeNumberProcessors != 1) KeBugCheck(…
The vendor in question rejected my proposal since I quoted more than the
original driver cost and they had a “working driver”, they just needed a
couple of changes. The above line was one of the better designed pieces of
the code!
PS. I think Max suggestion on capable companies is a good one
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
----- Original Message -----
From: “Maxim S. Shatskih”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> Anyway - if the company imposes such a limitation on drivers they
made,
> this means that they have no capable driver developers in staff.
Absolutely.
>
> Outsource this driver to some more capable company (where there is at
least
> 1 DDK MVP :-)) and then never use that first company for any system-level
> complex software tasks, only for ASP or PHP programming
>
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
In the end I’m going to either fix the driver or re-write it since I
have the source. I’ve already fixed on race condition and now it runs
much better on an SMP machine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 1:19 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
Anyway - if the company imposes such a limitation on drivers they
made,
this means that they have no capable driver developers in staff.
Absolutely.
Outsource this driver to some more capable company (where there is
at least
1 DDK MVP :-)) and then never use that first company for any
system-level
complex software tasks, only for ASP or PHP programming
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: “Peter Wieland”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> particularly with hyper-threaded processors available it’s going to be
> very easy to build MP systems cheaply in the near future. When one of
> your customers can’t a HT enabled system you’re going to have to go
back
> and get the driver fixed which will be more difficult than having it
> designed correctly from the start.
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
>
> Regardless of the WHQL issue, you need to insist on MP qualification.
It
> is absolutely unacceptable for a vendor to make this sort of
> restriction.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whitman, Steve [mailto:xxxxx@cognex.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:31 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] WHQL Certification
> >
> > A company that is supplying a driver for us claims that the driver
> > will be WHQL certified. However they also claim that the driver
will
> > not support multiprocessor machines. My question is can a driver
that
>
> > doesn’t support multiprocessors be WHQL certified?
> >
> > - Steve -
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@microsoft.com To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cognex.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com