What we know about Windows 8

In case you haven’t been following the goings on, here’s what we know SO FAR about Win 8 that’s of particular interest to driver devs:

  • the “device stage” that so few of us loved has been replaced by “device apps”… Which are supposed to fully integrate custom features that today would be implemented in control panel applets, system tray notification thingies, and custom IHV code. You apparently write one of these “device apps” like a regular app…

  • lots of attention to power, including a connected low power mode. There was a demo showing an ARM system doing a fast idle, wake, idle set of transitions that showed how little power was being used during idle. There were no details presented (in fairness, it wasn’t the place for details, so it’s nit like the details were avoided)

  • driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test drivers all from within Visual Studio.

  • Win 8 will run on any system that runs Win 7

  • there will be a release tonight which is a Community Technology Preview… Then there’ll be a Beta, an RC, and RTM. No dates were given.

  • Win8 downloadable tonight at 11PM US Eastern Time from http://dev.windows.com – should be OS, VS 11, other stuff… Not sure if this will include the WDK “add on pack”

  • driver-specific topics are scheduled for tomorrow and Thursday… Doron and Kevin Miller are presenting, as well as other well known folks)

That’s the latest… All from PUBLIC sources. Please do not post NDA information…

Have fun,

Peter
OSR

“- driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for
Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test
drivers all from within Visual Studio.”

Oh yeessss!

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:bounce-474355-
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

In case you haven’t been following the goings on, here’s what we know SO
FAR about Win 8 that’s of particular interest to driver devs:

  • the “device stage” that so few of us loved has been replaced by “device
    apps”… Which are supposed to fully integrate custom features that today
    would be implemented in control panel applets, system tray notification
    thingies, and custom IHV code. You apparently write one of these “device
    apps” like a regular app…

  • lots of attention to power, including a connected low power mode. There
    was a demo showing an ARM system doing a fast idle, wake, idle set of
    transitions that showed how little power was being used during idle.
    There
    were no details presented (in fairness, it wasn’t the place for details,
    so it’s
    nit like the details were avoided)

  • driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for
    Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test
    drivers
    all from within Visual Studio.

  • Win 8 will run on any system that runs Win 7

  • there will be a release tonight which is a Community Technology
    Preview…
    Then there’ll be a Beta, an RC, and RTM. No dates were given.

  • Win8 downloadable tonight at 11PM US Eastern Time from
    http://dev.windows.com – should be OS, VS 11, other stuff… Not sure if
    this
    will include the WDK “add on pack”

  • driver-specific topics are scheduled for tomorrow and Thursday… Doron
    and Kevin Miller are presenting, as well as other well known folks)

That’s the latest… All from PUBLIC sources. Please do not post NDA
information…

Have fun,

Peter
OSR


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Looking forward to talking on Thursday. Come on by and say hi after the talk :slight_smile:

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:25 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

In case you haven’t been following the goings on, here’s what we know SO FAR about Win 8 that’s of particular interest to driver devs:

  • the “device stage” that so few of us loved has been replaced by “device apps”… Which are supposed to fully integrate custom features that today would be implemented in control panel applets, system tray notification thingies, and custom IHV code. You apparently write one of these “device apps” like a regular app…

  • lots of attention to power, including a connected low power mode. There was a demo showing an ARM system doing a fast idle, wake, idle set of transitions that showed how little power was being used during idle. There were no details presented (in fairness, it wasn’t the place for details, so it’s nit like the details were avoided)

  • driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test drivers all from within Visual Studio.

  • Win 8 will run on any system that runs Win 7

  • there will be a release tonight which is a Community Technology Preview… Then there’ll be a Beta, an RC, and RTM. No dates were given.

  • Win8 downloadable tonight at 11PM US Eastern Time from http://dev.windows.com – should be OS, VS 11, other stuff… Not sure if this will include the WDK “add on pack”

  • driver-specific topics are scheduled for tomorrow and Thursday… Doron and Kevin Miller are presenting, as well as other well known folks)

That’s the latest… All from PUBLIC sources. Please do not post NDA information…

Have fun,

Peter
OSR


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Maybe I have been under an embedded world rock lately, but…Is VS11 released yet or is that part of this release??

It’s about time the WDK caught up with the CE tools as it comes to the integration with VS. Giant step forward!

Greg

xxxxx@osr.com wrote:

From: xxxxx@osr.com
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Subject: [ntdev] What we know about Windows 8
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:24:34 -0400 (EDT)

In case you haven’t been following the goings on, here’s what we know SO FAR about Win 8 that’s of particular interest to driver devs:

- the “device stage” that so few of us loved has been replaced by “device apps”… Which are supposed to fully integrate custom features that today would be implemented in control panel applets, system tray notification thingies, and custom IHV code. You apparently write one of these “device apps” like a regular app…

- lots of attention to power, including a connected low power mode. There was a demo showing an ARM system doing a fast idle, wake, idle set of transitions that showed how little power was being used during idle. There were no details presented (in fairness, it wasn’t the place for details, so it’s nit like the details were avoided)

- driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test drivers all from within Visual Studio.

- Win 8 will run on any system that runs Win 7

- there will be a release tonight which is a Community Technology Preview… Then there’ll be a Beta, an RC, and RTM. No dates were given.

- Win8 downloadable tonight at 11PM US Eastern Time from http://dev.windows.com – should be OS, VS 11, other stuff… Not sure if this will include the WDK “add on pack”

- driver-specific topics are scheduled for tomorrow and Thursday… Doron and Kevin Miller are presenting, as well as other well known folks)

That’s the latest… All from PUBLIC sources. Please do not post NDA information…

Have fun,

Peter
OSR


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

The currently released version of Visual Studio is VS 10.

VS11 will be new with Win 8.

Peter
OSR

Another bit of trivia seems to be public now also… Kernel debugging will be supported across the network. No details revealed yet, at least as far as I’ve seen.

Many of you probably know this already…

Peter
OSR

VS 2010 Express doesn’t seem good enough for it. Prepare to pay for full VS. You even need it for command ine builds.

How would you debug it except by running the driver on another system? I guess this will be WinDBG integrated
into VS rather.

Soren Dreijer wrote:

“- driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack” for
Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test
drivers all from within Visual Studio.”

Oh yeessss!


Kind regards, Dejan (MSN support: xxxxx@alfasp.com)
http://www.alfasp.com
File system audit, security and encryption kits.

VS2010 is not a supported IDE. It will be VS vNext (the SKU is not something I can comment on right now)

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@broadcom.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 3:02 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

VS 2010 Express doesn’t seem good enough for it. Prepare to pay for full VS. You even need it for command ine builds.


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

It’s mostly the “dev, build, package, sign” part that I’m excited about.
Depending on your driver, you’d probably never want to test it locally
anyway, but maybe Visual Studio can be used to make remote debugging easier,
i.e. you can step through your code directly in the IDE (although, in that
case, I hope they fix VS remote debugging tremendously since it blows
currently).

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:bounce-474373-
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Dejan Maksimovic
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:05 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

How would you debug it except by running the driver on another system?
I
guess this will be WinDBG integrated
into VS rather.

Soren Dreijer wrote:

> “- driver development in Win8 will be supported by a WDK “add on pack”
for
> Visual Studio 11… You can dev, build, package, sign, debug, and test
> drivers all from within Visual Studio.”
>
> Oh yeessss!


Kind regards, Dejan (MSN support: xxxxx@alfasp.com)
http://www.alfasp.com
File system audit, security and encryption kits.


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Will VS.Next be mandatory for command-line builds?

What will be the oldest OS still supported by Win8 WDK stuff?


Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

Folks, please keep notes on driver build and debug!


From:
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:44 PM
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Subject: RE:[ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

> The currently released version of Visual Studio is VS 10.
>
> VS11 will be new with Win 8.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Also: will the VS-integrated build stuff support !INCLUDE (to include the file with lots of macros) and then !IFDEF commands in the scripts?

For instance, for now, I can uncomment the single line in SOURCES.INC and then do the full rebuild, which will build binary with another features and with another name.

From what I remember on abysmal VS’s build system, you need to create a new build config for this, and then have the hell of “some setting updated in this build config but not in that”. Any other ways in modern VSs?

Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid the problem mentioned above.


Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

Yes, the WDK will require vs.next for command line (msbuild based) builds. The oldest supported OS is vista/windows2008sp2

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Maxim S. Shatskih
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:08 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

Will VS.Next be mandatory for command-line builds?

What will be the oldest OS still supported by Win8 WDK stuff?


Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

There are 2 msbuild based books that you should probably read

Inside the Microsoft Build Engine: Using MSBuild and Team Foundation Build
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Microsoft-Build-Engine-Foundation/dp/0735645248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315956277&sr=8-1

MSBuild Trickery: 99 Ways to Bend the Build Engine to Your Will (Volume 1)
http://www.amazon.com/MSBuild-Trickery-Ways-Build-Engine/dp/061550907X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1315956277&sr=8-5

there is no build.exe nor makefile.def anymore. That means no sources.inc or !ifdef stuff. We have a tool that will convert your existing projects to vcxproj files that should properly convert the runtime checks you current have. There is an object model for traversal of a vcxproj in the VS SDK, there is probably something in there to help you create one from scratch as well.

As for being human readable, that is up to each person’s tastes. I can easily read a vcxproj file. I find it more predictable and easier to understand than a sources file. It has rules and a fixed syntax. Sources don’t have either really.

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Maxim S. Shatskih
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:16 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

Also: will the VS-integrated build stuff support !INCLUDE (to include the file with lots of macros) and then !IFDEF commands in the scripts?

For instance, for now, I can uncomment the single line in SOURCES.INC and then do the full rebuild, which will build binary with another features and with another name.

From what I remember on abysmal VS’s build system, you need to create a new build config for this, and then have the hell of “some setting updated in this build config but not in that”. Any other ways in modern VSs?

Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid the problem mentioned above.


Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:

Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid the problem mentioned above.

Actually, it is possible to extract almost all of this information. The
names in the VS project files (which are simple XML) map quite directly
to constants and enumeration types in the .NET CLR classes for Visual
Studio automation. With a relatively simple perusal of those classes, I
created my own reference guide to project files, and it’s made my life
better.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

You can also script your way through this with python, perl, etc.

Mm
On Sep 13, 2011 7:30 PM, “Tim Roberts” wrote:
> Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
>> Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there
any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating
a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid
the problem mentioned above.
>
> Actually, it is possible to extract almost all of this information. The
> names in the VS project files (which are simple XML) map quite directly
> to constants and enumeration types in the .NET CLR classes for Visual
> Studio automation. With a relatively simple perusal of those classes, I
> created my own reference guide to project files, and it’s made my life
> better.
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

I haven’t used the latest VS since I had such a crappy experience with
the beta’s. Is it still the case that with the slightest change of the
freaking settings you can cause the ordering of everything in the proj
file to reorder, making a simple compare a nightmare. That is has
always been my biggest complaint with VS, in firms that use it with the
IDE I have spent weeks trying to align the N different set of options
since each dev seemed to diverge and since there was no way to compare
things, you did it by hand!

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“Tim Roberts” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev:

> Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> > Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid the problem mentioned above.
>
> Actually, it is possible to extract almost all of this information. The
> names in the VS project files (which are simple XML) map quite directly
> to constants and enumeration types in the .NET CLR classes for Visual
> Studio automation. With a relatively simple perusal of those classes, I
> created my own reference guide to project files, and it’s made my life
> better.
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Were you comparing vcproj or vcxproj files ? The entire VC project system was rewritten for vs2010 to be msbuild based (vs vcbuild previously ) anmived to vcxproj files

d

debt from my phone

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Burn
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] What we know about Windows 8

I haven’t used the latest VS since I had such a crappy experience with
the beta’s. Is it still the case that with the slightest change of the
freaking settings you can cause the ordering of everything in the proj
file to reorder, making a simple compare a nightmare. That is has
always been my biggest complaint with VS, in firms that use it with the
IDE I have spent weeks trying to align the N different set of options
since each dev seemed to diverge and since there was no way to compare
things, you did it by hand!

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

“Tim Roberts” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev:

> Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> > Also, is VS’s project files human-readable and documented? also, is there any OA-based way to script the VS’s project file creation? probably creating a project from scratch each time using a .vbs script is a good idea to avoid the problem mentioned above.
>
> Actually, it is possible to extract almost all of this information. The
> names in the VS project files (which are simple XML) map quite directly
> to constants and enumeration types in the .NET CLR classes for Visual
> Studio automation. With a relatively simple perusal of those classes, I
> created my own reference guide to project files, and it’s made my life
> better.
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Well, as someone who has a current VS subscription I wholeheartedly
support VS-WDK integration. However, I don’t think that this should be
a requirement, at least with respect to the platforms currently
supported by the WDK (x86, x86_x64). In case you are looking for
feedback. When can I start filing security bugs? :slight_smile:

On 9/13/2011 7:17 PM, Doron Holan wrote:

Yes, the WDK will require vs.next for command line (msbuild based) builds. The oldest supported OS is vista/windows2008sp2