Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Hi,
In my driver, I create a thread to check the health of the device using
PsCreateSystemThread().
Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat cmds to the
device.

If something goes bad to the device, the notification comes to the driver &
app error handling is done.

It works fine under normal conditions.
But if the CPU load is very high (abt 85% or so), & there are lots of IOs to
the device, at that time if the device is removed or goes bad or anything,
the thread checking the status of the device doesnt get the response in time
& I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU attention,
as it should.

The problem is visible on 2K as well as 2K3 systems.

Is there any workaround to this?

Thanks in advance.
Atul


Easiest Money Transfer to India. http://go.msnserver.com/IN/41490.asp Send
Money To 6000 Indian Towns.

Increase the priority of your watchdog thread. However you cannot guarantee
that IO errors will not take place, so your design approach is wrong. You
have to be able to handle IO errors.

=====================
Mark Roddy

-----Original Message-----
From: atul kabra [mailto:xxxxx@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:14 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Hi,
In my driver, I create a thread to check the health of the
device using PsCreateSystemThread().
Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
cmds to the device.

If something goes bad to the device, the notification comes
to the driver & app error handling is done.

It works fine under normal conditions.
But if the CPU load is very high (abt 85% or so), & there are
lots of IOs to the device, at that time if the device is
removed or goes bad or anything, the thread checking the
status of the device doesnt get the response in time & I/O
errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
attention, as it should.

The problem is visible on 2K as well as 2K3 systems.

Is there any workaround to this?

Thanks in advance.
Atul


Easiest Money Transfer to India.
http://go.msnserver.com/IN/41490.asp Send Money To 6000 Indian Towns.


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

You can tie your heartbeat to a timer interrupt instead of to a thread.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Roddy, Mark
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:25 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Increase the priority of your watchdog thread. However you cannot guarantee
that IO errors will not take place, so your design approach is wrong. You
have to be able to handle IO errors.

=====================
Mark Roddy

-----Original Message-----
From: atul kabra [mailto:xxxxx@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:14 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Hi,
In my driver, I create a thread to check the health of the
device using PsCreateSystemThread().
Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
cmds to the device.

If something goes bad to the device, the notification comes
to the driver & app error handling is done.

It works fine under normal conditions.
But if the CPU load is very high (abt 85% or so), & there are
lots of IOs to the device, at that time if the device is
removed or goes bad or anything, the thread checking the
status of the device doesnt get the response in time & I/O
errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
attention, as it should.

The problem is visible on 2K as well as 2K3 systems.

Is there any workaround to this?

Thanks in advance.
Atul


Easiest Money Transfer to India.
http://go.msnserver.com/IN/41490.asp Send Money To 6000 Indian Towns.


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.

> Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat cmds to the

device.

Why not use KeSetTimer for this?

& I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU attention,
as it should.

It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU attention for a
particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.

Is there any workaround to this?

No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better (it supercedes any
thread scheduling and can be delayed only by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).

Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on ATAPI CD drives -
due to compatibility with ancient IDE controllers I think. So, if your product
is targeted to commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running in
parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver will do all data
transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR (higher execution level then timer
callbacks, not to say threads).

Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more relaxing. This is
the only way.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my DPC gets
control in time. I would install my own Timer Interrupt routine and do it
right there and then. Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half,
not in the bottom half !

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim S. Shatskih
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat cmds to the
device.

Why not use KeSetTimer for this?

& I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
attention,
as it should.

It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU attention for a
particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.

Is there any workaround to this?

No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better (it supercedes
any
thread scheduling and can be delayed only by the long and huge DPCs and
ISRs).

Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on ATAPI CD drives -
due to compatibility with ancient IDE controllers I think. So, if your
product
is targeted to commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
in
parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver will do all data
transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR (higher execution level then
timer
callbacks, not to say threads).

Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more relaxing. This
is
the only way.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.

Somebody please make alberto stop.

=====================
Mark Roddy

-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
the bottom half !

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
S. Shatskih
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
cmds to the
> device.

Why not use KeSetTimer for this?

> & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
attention,
> as it should.

It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.

> Is there any workaround to this?

No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
(it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).

Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
(higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).

Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
relaxing. This is the only way.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
addressee only. It contains information that may be
confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it.


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> Somebody please make alberto stop.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > the bottom half !
> >
> > Alberto.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > S. Shatskih
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > cmds to the
> > > device.
> >
> > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> >
> > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
> > attention,
> > > as it should.
> >
> > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> >
> > > Is there any workaround to this?
> >
> > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> >
> > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> >
> > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > relaxing. This is the only way.
> >
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > us immediately and then destroy it.
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>

Mark,

I had already decided to ignore him since we can’t make him stop.
Perhaps it is time for a FAQ entry on bypassing the OS?

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> Somebody please make alberto stop.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > the bottom half !
> >
> > Alberto.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > S. Shatskih
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > cmds to the
> > > device.
> >
> > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> >
> > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
> > attention,
> > > as it should.
> >
> > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> >
> > > Is there any workaround to this?
> >
> > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> >
> > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> >
> > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > relaxing. This is the only way.
> >
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > us immediately and then destroy it.
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

I met with SOME of the members of this list in Seattle/Redmond at
Microsoft’s Driver Developers conference.

Of course, that assumes that you go to the conference, and there will of
course be a lot of “other people” there too.

Proximity is certainly a large problem. I know where some of the list
members are, I also guess where some are (due to time of e-mails arriving,
not a good indicator, but still), and there is a big distance! This is why
the developers conference, and other such events, are very useful, because
for those of us that are working for a company (rather than consultants who
“are” the company), it means that the company pays for the trip, and you get
to meet some nice people too (oh, the MS people are nice TOO, and they give
you all sorts of things, CD’s, papers and food/drink). That’s just my
thoughts…


Mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Batson [mailto:xxxxx@cbatson.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or
something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a
different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well
too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
>
>
> > Somebody please make alberto stop.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > > the bottom half !
> > >
> > > Alberto.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > > S. Shatskih
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > > cmds to the
> > > > device.
> > >
> > > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> > >
> > > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt
> get the CPU
> > > attention,
> > > > as it should.
> > >
> > > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> > >
> > > > Is there any workaround to this?
> > >
> > > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> > >
> > > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> > >
> > > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > > relaxing. This is the only way.
> > >
> > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > > us immediately and then destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Well, at some point in time maybe people should schedule something in the
East Coast ? After all, it’s right in between the West Coast and Europe. :slight_smile:

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of
xxxxx@3Dlabs.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:14 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

I met with SOME of the members of this list in Seattle/Redmond at
Microsoft’s Driver Developers conference.

Of course, that assumes that you go to the conference, and there will of
course be a lot of “other people” there too.

Proximity is certainly a large problem. I know where some of the list
members are, I also guess where some are (due to time of e-mails arriving,
not a good indicator, but still), and there is a big distance! This is why
the developers conference, and other such events, are very useful, because
for those of us that are working for a company (rather than consultants who
“are” the company), it means that the company pays for the trip, and you get
to meet some nice people too (oh, the MS people are nice TOO, and they give
you all sorts of things, CD’s, papers and food/drink). That’s just my
thoughts…


Mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Batson [mailto:xxxxx@cbatson.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or
something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a
different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well
too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
>
>
> > Somebody please make alberto stop.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > > the bottom half !
> > >
> > > Alberto.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > > S. Shatskih
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > > cmds to the
> > > > device.
> > >
> > > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> > >
> > > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt
> get the CPU
> > > attention,
> > > > as it should.
> > >
> > > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> > >
> > > > Is there any workaround to this?
> > >
> > > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> > >
> > > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> > >
> > > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > > relaxing. This is the only way.
> > >
> > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > > us immediately and then destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.

One of you guys give me a solution that guarantees response time and I’ll
shut up. But frankly, I’m sick and tired of this old wornout line that “you
can’t do this or that or the other because the OS doesn’t do it and we don’t
want to bypass it” - sorry, guys, my first reaction is, spiff up that OS.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:37 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Mark,

I had already decided to ignore him since we can’t make him stop.
Perhaps it is time for a FAQ entry on bypassing the OS?

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> Somebody please make alberto stop.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > the bottom half !
> >
> > Alberto.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > S. Shatskih
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > cmds to the
> > > device.
> >
> > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> >
> > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
> > attention,
> > > as it should.
> >
> > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> >
> > > Is there any workaround to this?
> >
> > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> >
> > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> >
> > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > relaxing. This is the only way.
> >
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > us immediately and then destroy it.
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.

Actually, I think the DDK feedback sessions Micorosoft has had at WinHEC and
DevCon should be considered for the meet. I was actually surprised how few
people wanted to give Microsoft suggestions for improvements, especially in
light of the amount of complaining about things we see on the list. At
WinHEC Microsoft has actually provided an open bar (ok beer and wine) so
that is covered.

Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> I met with SOME of the members of this list in Seattle/Redmond at
> Microsoft’s Driver Developers conference.
>
> Of course, that assumes that you go to the conference, and there will of
> course be a lot of “other people” there too.
>
> Proximity is certainly a large problem. I know where some of the list
> members are, I also guess where some are (due to time of e-mails arriving,
> not a good indicator, but still), and there is a big distance! This is why
> the developers conference, and other such events, are very useful, because
> for those of us that are working for a company (rather than consultants
who
> “are” the company), it means that the company pays for the trip, and you
get
> to meet some nice people too (oh, the MS people are nice TOO, and they
give
> you all sorts of things, CD’s, papers and food/drink). That’s just my
> thoughts…
>
> –
> Mats
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chuck Batson [mailto:xxxxx@cbatson.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:45 PM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or
> > something?
> > Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
> > geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a
> > different
> > location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
> > get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well
> > too. But
> > I digress…
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: “Roddy, Mark”
> > To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > > Somebody please make alberto stop.
> > >
> > >
> > > =====================
> > > Mark Roddy
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > > > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > > > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > > > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > > > the bottom half !
> > > >
> > > > Alberto.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > > > S. Shatskih
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > > > cmds to the
> > > > > device.
> > > >
> > > > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> > > >
> > > > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt
> > get the CPU
> > > > attention,
> > > > > as it should.
> > > >
> > > > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > > > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> > > >
> > > > > Is there any workaround to this?
> > > >
> > > > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > > > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > > > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> > > >
> > > > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > > > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > > > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > > > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > > > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > > > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > > > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> > > >
> > > > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > > > relaxing. This is the only way.
> > > >
> > > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > > >
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > > > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > > > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > > > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > > > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > > > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > > > us immediately and then destroy it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > > >
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@acm.org
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Well the way I see it is pretty round. Those coming from the other side of
the
California river ( well if my metric is Mega-meter) might not like to make
it to east coast…

How about silicon valley ? Or may be we should pick about 10 places around
the world, and do a drawing so noone would feel about it …

-prokash

-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:24 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Well, at some point in time maybe people should schedule something in the
East Coast ? After all, it’s right in between the West Coast and Europe. :slight_smile:

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of
xxxxx@3Dlabs.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:14 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

I met with SOME of the members of this list in Seattle/Redmond at
Microsoft’s Driver Developers conference.

Of course, that assumes that you go to the conference, and there will of
course be a lot of “other people” there too.

Proximity is certainly a large problem. I know where some of the list
members are, I also guess where some are (due to time of e-mails arriving,
not a good indicator, but still), and there is a big distance! This is why
the developers conference, and other such events, are very useful, because
for those of us that are working for a company (rather than consultants who
“are” the company), it means that the company pays for the trip, and you get
to meet some nice people too (oh, the MS people are nice TOO, and they give
you all sorts of things, CD’s, papers and food/drink). That’s just my
thoughts…


Mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Batson [mailto:xxxxx@cbatson.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or
something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a
different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well
too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
>
>
> > Somebody please make alberto stop.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my DPC
> > > gets control in time. I would install my own Timer Interrupt
> > > routine and do it right there and then. Time-pressing chores
> > > should be done in the upper half, not in the bottom half !
> > >
> > > Alberto.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim S.
> > > Shatskih
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > > cmds to the
> > > > device.
> > >
> > > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> > >
> > > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt
> get the CPU
> > > attention,
> > > > as it should.
> > >
> > > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> > >
> > > > Is there any workaround to this?
> > >
> > > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better (it
> > > supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only by the
> > > long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> > >
> > > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on ATAPI
> > > CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE controllers I
> > > think. So, if your product is targeted to commodity market - then
> > > it will fail miserably while running in parallel with heavy CD-ROM
> > > I/O, since the ATAPI driver will do all data transport as REP INSW
> > > opcode inside the ISR (higher execution level then timer
> > > callbacks, not to say threads).
> > >
> > > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > > relaxing. This is the only way.
> > >
> > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee
> > > only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you
> > > are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not
> > > copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it
> > > in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com To
> > unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@3dlabs.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@maxtor.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

In that case, I vote for St. Moritz.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Sinha, Prokash
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:54 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Well the way I see it is pretty round. Those coming from the other side of
the
California river ( well if my metric is Mega-meter) might not like to make
it to east coast…

How about silicon valley ? Or may be we should pick about 10 places around
the world, and do a drawing so noone would feel about it …

-prokash

-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:24 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Well, at some point in time maybe people should schedule something in the
East Coast ? After all, it’s right in between the West Coast and Europe. :slight_smile:

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of
xxxxx@3Dlabs.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:14 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

I met with SOME of the members of this list in Seattle/Redmond at
Microsoft’s Driver Developers conference.

Of course, that assumes that you go to the conference, and there will of
course be a lot of “other people” there too.

Proximity is certainly a large problem. I know where some of the list
members are, I also guess where some are (due to time of e-mails arriving,
not a good indicator, but still), and there is a big distance! This is why
the developers conference, and other such events, are very useful, because
for those of us that are working for a company (rather than consultants who
“are” the company), it means that the company pays for the trip, and you get
to meet some nice people too (oh, the MS people are nice TOO, and they give
you all sorts of things, CD’s, papers and food/drink). That’s just my
thoughts…


Mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Batson [mailto:xxxxx@cbatson.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or
something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a
different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well
too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
> To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
>
>
> > Somebody please make alberto stop.
> >
> >
> > =====================
> > Mark Roddy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my DPC
> > > gets control in time. I would install my own Timer Interrupt
> > > routine and do it right there and then. Time-pressing chores
> > > should be done in the upper half, not in the bottom half !
> > >
> > > Alberto.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim S.
> > > Shatskih
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> > >
> > >
> > > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > > cmds to the
> > > > device.
> > >
> > > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> > >
> > > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt
> get the CPU
> > > attention,
> > > > as it should.
> > >
> > > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> > >
> > > > Is there any workaround to this?
> > >
> > > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better (it
> > > supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only by the
> > > long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> > >
> > > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on ATAPI
> > > CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE controllers I
> > > think. So, if your product is targeted to commodity market - then
> > > it will fail miserably while running in parallel with heavy CD-ROM
> > > I/O, since the ATAPI driver will do all data transport as REP INSW
> > > opcode inside the ISR (higher execution level then timer
> > > callbacks, not to say threads).
> > >
> > > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > > relaxing. This is the only way.
> > >
> > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee
> > > only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you
> > > are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not
> > > copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it
> > > in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> > >
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com To
> > unsubscribe send a blank email to
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

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To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
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The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.


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You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.

DOS is dead dude!

Jamey Kirby, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Inc.
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Moreira, Alberto
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:22 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my DPC gets
control in time. I would install my own Timer Interrupt routine and do it
right there and then. Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half,
not in the bottom half !

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim S. Shatskih
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat cmds to the
device.

Why not use KeSetTimer for this?

& I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
attention,
as it should.

It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU attention for a
particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.

Is there any workaround to this?

No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better (it supercedes
any
thread scheduling and can be delayed only by the long and huge DPCs and
ISRs).

Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on ATAPI CD drives -
due to compatibility with ancient IDE controllers I think. So, if your
product
is targeted to commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
in
parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver will do all data
transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR (higher execution level then
timer
callbacks, not to say threads).

Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more relaxing. This
is
the only way.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
and then destroy it.


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

GeekFest 2004! It starts on June 4th and last 5 days. We camp in the
wilderness; with VSAT broadband of course. Several on this list have been to
GeekFest. Anyone interested, drop me a note.

Jamey Kirby, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Inc.
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Batson
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:45 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

Does this group have anything like an annual get-together or something?
Perhaps an “ice cream social”? I realize there’s probably some
geographic proximity issues, but it could be fun to meet at a different
location every year. Especially if they’re warm places and the
get-togethers are in the winter. An open bar would work well too. But
I digress…

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: “Roddy, Mark”
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic

> Somebody please make alberto stop.
>
>
> =====================
> Mark Roddy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:22 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: RE: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > I wouldn’t use KeSetTimer because I’m not guaranteed that my
> > DPC gets control in time. I would install my own Timer
> > Interrupt routine and do it right there and then.
> > Time-pressing chores should be done in the upper half, not in
> > the bottom half !
> >
> > Alberto.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Maxim
> > S. Shatskih
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:16 AM
> > To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Thread status in a lot of i/o traffic
> >
> >
> > > Basically, all this thred does is it sends dummy hearbeat
> > cmds to the
> > > device.
> >
> > Why not use KeSetTimer for this?
> >
> > > & I/O errors take place. Apparently the thread doesnt get the CPU
> > attention,
> > > as it should.
> >
> > It should not. NT provides no guarantees on amount of CPU
> > attention for a particular thread, i.e. it is not a realtime OS.
> >
> > > Is there any workaround to this?
> >
> > No, but switching to KeSetTimer will make things much better
> > (it supercedes any thread scheduling and can be delayed only
> > by the long and huge DPCs and ISRs).
> >
> > Note: the commodity installs of NT OSes disable the DMA on
> > ATAPI CD drives - due to compatibility with ancient IDE
> > controllers I think. So, if your product is targeted to
> > commodity market - then it will fail miserably while running
> > in parallel with heavy CD-ROM I/O, since the ATAPI driver
> > will do all data transport as REP INSW opcode inside the ISR
> > (higher execution level then timer callbacks, not to say threads).
> >
> > Redesign your hardware and make its timing requirements more
> > relaxing. This is the only way.
> >
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@compuware.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> > email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
> > addressee only. It contains information that may be
> > confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an
> > authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose
> > it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
> > us immediately and then destroy it.
> >
> >
> > —
> > Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> > http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> >
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@cbatson.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>


Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

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To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com