Re: Using serial-to-BT wireless

I don’t have serial to BT adapter, but most of the same
applies to USB-serial adapters, and they work.
Need just to try this, chances are that BT will work fine as well.

Regards,
–PA

Skywing wrote:

The KD protocol is fairly ?chatty?, and it?s completely serialized, with
only one request-response in flight at a time. Operations like breaking
into the debugger require many requests (e.g. read memory, read
registers, ?), and this makes KD get painfully slow very quickly once
you start adding any non-trivial latency in there. (You can see this by
using kdsrv to project the kd protocol over a network, and then trying
to use it on practically anything that?s not a LAN link.)

(This is also related to why closing memory/registers/disassembly
windows will improve the responsiveness of KD, as that?s less talking to
be done on every state change of the target.)

I seem to recall Bluetooth tending to add somewhere around 10ms or so
latency (PAN, DUN over serial port), though those admittedly have more
things layered on top of them (although DUN over serial should I think
be pretty close to what you would be doing.) Could be crummy
implementations too, but in general, it?s not pretty to use KD once you
start adding a lot of transport latency into the mix between the target
and the debugger.

(The WinDbg remote debugging protocols are much more tolerant of latency
than the raw KD wire protocol.)

  • S

*From:* xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Donelson
*Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2008 11:59 AM
*To:* Kernel Debugging Interest List
*Subject:* Re: Re:[windbg] Using serial-to-BT wireless

Interesting - sensitive in what way? We have not seen any noticeable
difference.
Seems to work as good as a cable. Perhaps when the link is all on
dedicated hardware (the pc is not involved in anyway) and with purpose
driven engineering, they don’t have a significant delay. I would think
a 10ms delay would generally spoil cable emulation in other applications
as well.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Skywing > mailto:xxxxx> wrote:
>
> Bluetooth adds non-trivial latency though, as I recall. The KD protocol
> is (highly) latency sensitive. Even adding 10ms makes things
> significantly more painful.
>
>
>
> - S
>
>
>
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> mailto:xxxxx
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> mailto:xxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jim Donelson
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:27 AM
>
>
> To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
>
> Subject: Re: Re:[windbg] Using serial-to-BT wireless
>
>
>
> Doron,
> 115K baud is a 115K regardless of how you connect it.
> If he is talking about the BlueTooth cable replacements then they look
> just like a real serial port on both ends.
> We use them and they are just as good as long cable.
>
> Do us all a real favor if you can. Get a KB out for XP that fixes the
> firewire driver to work with VIA chipsets and or add USB to XP.
> For the for see able future, the “rest of us” still have to debug with
> XP, and unless you have the magic firewire chipset, most of use use 115K
> serial links.
>
> Ya, I know - I’m dreaming.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Doron Holan > mailto:xxxxx> wrote:
>
> Why would even want to run over bluetooth? The debug speed would be
> abysmal. The target side (i.e. the machine being debugged) needs to see
> a UART at the hardware level, not the software/emulation level.
>
> d
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> mailto:xxxxx
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> mailto:xxxxx] On Behalf Of Martin O’Brien
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:52 PM
> To: Kernel Debugging Interest List
> Subject: Re:[windbg] Using serial-to-BT wireless
>
> Interesting question; unfortunately, I don’t know the answer. It seems
> like it should work as the target side would presumably see
> a UART, lack of which is usually the deal breaker for WinDbg transport
> alternatives. Where you lose me is the part about needing
> one on the host side, because it seems like you would have to, as WinDbg
> can’t connect over Bluetooth, but I think that I’m missing
> something.
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> mm
>
> I?aki Castillo wrote:
> > Has anyone used a serial-to-Bluetooth wireless device for the target
> > machine ?
> > I mean, something like this:
> >
> http://www.sena.com/products/industrial_bluetooth/sd.php?domain=buysena_website
> >
> > If so, have you been able to connect using a simple Bluetooth board on
> > the Windbg side, or is it necessary to have serial-to-BT boards on both
> > sides ?
> >
> > Do you recommend any specific brand ?
> >
> > Inaki.
> >
></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx>