Re: [OT] If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE...

> PS. I’ve always been confused as to why they didn’t use the IDE’s debugger
which is a real product vs. the buggy unsupported

WinDbg, but one step at a time.

I know this is off topic, but what the heck: WinDbg really is no longer
buggy. And I think the concensus is that it’s been pretty well supported for
over a year now. There are updates, with new functionality, posted at least
monthly at http://www.microsoft.com/ddk/debugging. There’s also a mailing
list (http://www.osr.com/lists) for questions/issues that appears to be
monitored by the developers.

Good heavens, there’s even real documentation at this point.

Peter


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com

Try srctodsp.exe from numega.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Dave Harvey
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:58 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Well, I always edit drivers with the IDE, then build them to
get rid of compilation errors, and to get browse info. I’d then
rebuild using the standard tools to get a binary that I can use.
I’ve always been too lazy to make the IDE generate the binary.

I would be extremely happy to always use the IDE, and to not set it up
by hand each time.
-DH

PS. I’ve always been confused as to why they didn’t use the IDE’s
debugger which is a real product vs. the buggy unsupported
WinDbg, but one step at a time.

----- Original Message -----
From: “Peter Viscarola”
> Newsgroups: ntdev
> To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:17 AM
> Subject: [ntdev] If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
>
>
> > I have a hypothetical for the members of this list.
> >
> > Imagine Microsoft were to provide, as part of the DDK, a
> supported method
> > for building drivers from within Visual Studio (the IDE).
> Further imagine
> > that this method was to execute a bat file (provided with the
> DDK) that ran
> > BUILD as an external build step. (And, of course, using BUILD from the
> > command line as we do today would still be a supported option.)
> >
> > Tell me: Would you care? Would you view it as a good and useful thing?
> >
> > Would it be a good and useful thing, even though:
> > a) You did not get support for “function expansion” for DDK
> functions, the
> > way you do for SDK functions
> > b) You did not get support for hitting F1 and getting help on a DDK
> > function, the way you do for SDK functions
> > c) You could not debug from within the IDE – In other words,
> you’d continue
> > to use your favorite debugger, such as WinDbg, the way we do now.
> >
> > Or are any/some/all of the above requisites to profitably using the DDK
> > within the IDE?
> >
> > Feedback to the list or directly to me… your choice. But by all means
> > please do let me know what you think…
> >
> > Peter
> > OSR
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@syssoftsol.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com

It is available at http://www.numega.com/drivercentral/utilfiles/util.shtml.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamey Kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:04 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Try srctodsp.exe from numega.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Dave Harvey
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:58 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Well, I always edit drivers with the IDE, then build them to
get rid of compilation errors, and to get browse info. I’d then
rebuild using the standard tools to get a binary that I can use.
I’ve always been too lazy to make the IDE generate the binary.

I would be extremely happy to always use the IDE, and to not set it up
by hand each time.
-DH

PS. I’ve always been confused as to why they didn’t use the IDE’s
debugger which is a real product vs. the buggy unsupported
WinDbg, but one step at a time.

----- Original Message -----
From: “Peter Viscarola”
> Newsgroups: ntdev
> To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:17 AM
> Subject: [ntdev] If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
>
>
> > I have a hypothetical for the members of this list.
> >
> > Imagine Microsoft were to provide, as part of the DDK, a
> supported method
> > for building drivers from within Visual Studio (the IDE).
> Further imagine
> > that this method was to execute a bat file (provided with the
> DDK) that ran
> > BUILD as an external build step. (And, of course, using BUILD from the
> > command line as we do today would still be a supported option.)
> >
> > Tell me: Would you care? Would you view it as a good and useful thing?
> >
> > Would it be a good and useful thing, even though:
> > a) You did not get support for “function expansion” for DDK
> functions, the
> > way you do for SDK functions
> > b) You did not get support for hitting F1 and getting help on a DDK
> > function, the way you do for SDK functions
> > c) You could not debug from within the IDE – In other words,
> you’d continue
> > to use your favorite debugger, such as WinDbg, the way we do now.
> >
> > Or are any/some/all of the above requisites to profitably using the DDK
> > within the IDE?
> >
> > Feedback to the list or directly to me… your choice. But by all means
> > please do let me know what you think…
> >
> > Peter
> > OSR
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@syssoftsol.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com

Alberto,

Does CompuWare have any plans on updating this utility to work with
2000/whistler. Currently, I make the dsp and dsw and then tweak the dsp file
to work with 2K. It would be nice to not have to tweak it each time.

Jamey

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Moreira, Alberto
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:12 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

It is available at
http://www.numega.com/drivercentral/utilfiles/util.shtml.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamey Kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:04 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Try srctodsp.exe from numega.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Dave Harvey
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:58 AM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
>
>
> Well, I always edit drivers with the IDE, then build them to
> get rid of compilation errors, and to get browse info. I’d then
> rebuild using the standard tools to get a binary that I can use.
> I’ve always been too lazy to make the IDE generate the binary.
>
> I would be extremely happy to always use the IDE, and to not set it up
> by hand each time.
> -DH
>
> PS. I’ve always been confused as to why they didn’t use the IDE’s
> debugger which is a real product vs. the buggy unsupported
> WinDbg, but one step at a time.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Peter Viscarola”
> > Newsgroups: ntdev
> > To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [ntdev] If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
> >
> >
> > > I have a hypothetical for the members of this list.
> > >
> > > Imagine Microsoft were to provide, as part of the DDK, a
> > supported method
> > > for building drivers from within Visual Studio (the IDE).
> > Further imagine
> > > that this method was to execute a bat file (provided with the
> > DDK) that ran
> > > BUILD as an external build step. (And, of course, using
> BUILD from the
> > > command line as we do today would still be a supported option.)
> > >
> > > Tell me: Would you care? Would you view it as a good and
> useful thing?
> > >
> > > Would it be a good and useful thing, even though:
> > > a) You did not get support for “function expansion” for DDK
> > functions, the
> > > way you do for SDK functions
> > > b) You did not get support for hitting F1 and getting help on a DDK
> > > function, the way you do for SDK functions
> > > c) You could not debug from within the IDE – In other words,
> > you’d continue
> > > to use your favorite debugger, such as WinDbg, the way we do now.
> > >
> > > Or are any/some/all of the above requisites to profitably
> using the DDK
> > > within the IDE?
> > >
> > > Feedback to the list or directly to me… your choice. But
> by all means
> > > please do let me know what you think…
> > >
> > > Peter
> > > OSR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@syssoftsol.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com

Hi, Jamey,

We are in the process of issuing Beta 1 of our DriverStudio 2.5, with a new
distributed SoftIce and more, and that will have a new version of
srctodsp.exe which will hopefully work with Win2k and Whistler Beta 2. The
version up on the web is a bit older, and you have to tweak it, as you say.
As soon as we get out of this cycle of pre-beta QA and what not, I’ll see if
I can steal some cycles from one of the developers to generate an up-to-date
srctodsp.exe on the web site! Thing is, srctodsp doesn’t belong to me but to
a fellow manager, so I have to pay him a beer or two. But he’s been using it
to convert all his DriverNetworks samples to VC6, so we know it does work
with Win2K. XP2 is a different story, we’re going to have to test it and see
what we need to change. But give me a week or two, and I’ll put a better
version up on the web for everyone to use.

If I don’t come back on ntdev within a couple of weeks with something,
please pull my chain! This is a relatively small item, it shouldn’t be hard
to get it done quickly.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamey Kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:59 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Alberto,

Does CompuWare have any plans on updating this utility to work with
2000/whistler. Currently, I make the dsp and dsw and then tweak the dsp file
to work with 2K. It would be nice to not have to tweak it each time.

Jamey

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Moreira, Alberto
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:12 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

It is available at
http://www.numega.com/drivercentral/utilfiles/util.shtml.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamey Kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:04 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

Try srctodsp.exe from numega.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Dave Harvey
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:58 AM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
>
>
> Well, I always edit drivers with the IDE, then build them to
> get rid of compilation errors, and to get browse info. I’d then
> rebuild using the standard tools to get a binary that I can use.
> I’ve always been too lazy to make the IDE generate the binary.
>
> I would be extremely happy to always use the IDE, and to not set it up
> by hand each time.
> -DH
>
> PS. I’ve always been confused as to why they didn’t use the IDE’s
> debugger which is a real product vs. the buggy unsupported
> WinDbg, but one step at a time.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Peter Viscarola”
> > Newsgroups: ntdev
> > To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [ntdev] If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…
> >
> >
> > > I have a hypothetical for the members of this list.
> > >
> > > Imagine Microsoft were to provide, as part of the DDK, a
> > supported method
> > > for building drivers from within Visual Studio (the IDE).
> > Further imagine
> > > that this method was to execute a bat file (provided with the
> > DDK) that ran
> > > BUILD as an external build step. (And, of course, using
> BUILD from the
> > > command line as we do today would still be a supported option.)
> > >
> > > Tell me: Would you care? Would you view it as a good and
> useful thing?
> > >
> > > Would it be a good and useful thing, even though:
> > > a) You did not get support for “function expansion” for DDK
> > functions, the
> > > way you do for SDK functions
> > > b) You did not get support for hitting F1 and getting help on a DDK
> > > function, the way you do for SDK functions
> > > c) You could not debug from within the IDE – In other words,
> > you’d continue
> > > to use your favorite debugger, such as WinDbg, the way we do now.
> > >
> > > Or are any/some/all of the above requisites to profitably
> using the DDK
> > > within the IDE?
> > >
> > > Feedback to the list or directly to me… your choice. But
> by all means
> > > please do let me know what you think…
> > >
> > > Peter
> > > OSR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@syssoftsol.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compuware.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com

Don,

This wasn’t what I wanted to learn, but it sure was the right info to stop
me from pursuing the fool’s errand I have been on.

Thanks,

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Burn [mailto:xxxxx@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:13 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: If MS Supported Building Drivers From The IDE…

I would use the support. I’ve used and sometimes struggled
with ddkbuild since long before OSR published it.

As far as the limitations, I believe the first two are compiler problems
that should be fixed by Microsoft:

  1. IntelliSense should have a way (preferably a pragma)
    to allow parameter completion from function prototypes
    (see KB article Q190974 for an explanation of why
    the DDK functions don’t autocomplete). For that matter
    there should be a way to disable the auto completion of
    functions you don’t include!

  2. F1 help, this is because of Microsoft’s friggin the Web
    is everything mentality. The DDK should be part of MSDN
    documentation. For that matter the compiler should allow
    additional help files be indexed, so that one can even do for
    their own functions.

Don Burn
Windows 2000 Device Driver and Filesystem consulting


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: $subst(‘Recip.EmailAddr’)
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com