Re: [ntdev] VS2013 Driver Package Failure

???

XML is a simple text based construct. How can they possibly have comfort with editing sources files, but object strenuously to another text based format except on the grounds that they (you) don’t know much about the new format

Sent from Surface Pro

From: Don Burn
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎14‎, ‎2014 ‎6‎:‎46‎ ‎PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List

Telling my customer to edit XML is a sure way for them to rethink the whole
use of Windows!!! As a classic quote says " XML is like violence. Sure,
it seems like a quick and easy solution at first, but then it spirals out of
control into utter chaos."

SO COULD SOMEONE TELL ME ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

  1. Where in the multitude of options in properties should the copy
    information have been?
  2. What are likely or even possible scenarios for this getting screwed up,
    so I can tell my customer not to do this again?

The predecessor’s to XML were called out by a number of us as being a stupid
mistake almost 35 years ago, some of use questioned Microsoft on repeating
this mistake over 10 years ago, can we avoid any more XML mistakes.

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:31 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] VS2013 Driver Package Failure

Try adding the following FilesToPackage items in the LEC2PCI.vcxproj file.
There should be a FilesToPackage dedicated ItemGroup in the project file.
Edit the project file outside the IDE. When the file is saved, the IDE
should prompt you to reload the project file.

Include=“$(SolutionDir)$(Platform)$(ConfigurationName)\LEC2PCI.sys”
Condition=“$(Platform)==‘x64’”>


Condition=“$(Platform)==‘Win32’”>



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I still don’t get the problem. There is just as much documentation as there ever was, and stupid users make the same mistakes they always did. Perhaps the problem is that they were afraid of makefiles, but aren’t afraid of the GUI

Sent from Surface Pro

From: Don Burn
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎15‎, ‎2014 ‎1‎:‎13‎ ‎PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List

Tim the difference is that there was one makefile.new and if you followed
good practice it never was touched (maybe read but not touched). Now we
have a file for each project, and there is the wonderful GUI that will
change things in ways most people don’t understand (for instance my customer
was not even aware till I told them that the project file was XML, but they
had through properties somehow messed up the project). So by the new rules
of your logic, anyone building a driver in the years from NT 3.1 to Window 7
had better understand every nuance of makefile.new? Sorry most people did
not even know what that file was.

Doron the difference between the magic keywords of SOURCES was the
common ones were documented and most sources only had those. I worked a
number of years doing Windows drivers before I ever ducked under the hood to
look at the makefile,new stuff. This is the third client I know of in less
than a year that accidently made their project non-functional, while using
the GUI and thinking they were doing something that would not even impact
the area they ultimately broke.

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 12:41 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] VS2013 Driver Package Failure

Don Burn wrote:

Sorry but undocumented (and yes I* have the MsBuild books) XML is not
something anyone should be expected to edit.

Well, all I can say is that you’re wrong. The format is different from a
makefile, and the things are spelled differently, but the same capabilities
are all present, plus a lot more. Most of the “magic keywords” are spelled
out (with comments, even!) in the files that get included from “C:\Program
Files (x86)\MSBuild”. Rooting around in those files is no different from
rooting around in \DDK\7600\bin\makefile.new, and we’ve ALL certainly done
that to get the final answer on an old-style build question.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


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You keep going back to that point, but the tags are documented

I agree that the GUI can mess things up unless used carefully, but so what. If you don’t like it, than don’t use it

Sent from Surface Pro

From: Don Burn
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎15‎, ‎2014 ‎8‎:‎32‎ ‎PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List

Never said editing the project file was undocumented, what is undocumented
is a large number of the XML tags in a driver project file. I will also
point out that editing one or more XML files is a little more daunting to
most folks than editing some sources files, consider that the toaster kmdf
driver in Win8.1 is described by 165KB of .vcxproj files, and that in Win7
3KB of SOURCES files. Don’t know about you but my customers find between
the size and the lack of documentation on the tags, that editing project
files can be a scary place.

Finally, I kept asking and no one could tell me how from the properties
dialog you could completely mess up the FilesToPackage area. For that
matter the comment about undocumented tags, try finding documentation on
FilesToPackage, not in the MsBuild books, and not found by Bing or Google
(except your post of earlier today). So we have a fragile tool since if you
use the GUI and mess up it easy to break things, at which point your only
choice is to wander into undocumented parts of project files to fix it.

Don Burn
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:45 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] VS2013 Driver Package Failure

I would like to add that editing a project file is not “undocumented”
provided that you know what you are doing and that you take necessary
preliminary steps to avoid disasters like backing up.

How to: Edit Project Files (MSDN)

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171487(v=vs.90).aspx


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