RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So- ftICE?

Mark,

Sorry for insisting, maybe I should shut up and stop polluting the mailing
list. But hey, nobody’s perfect, we do what we can. One thing I can say is,
I don’t get my copy of XP one minute sooner than any of you, so, until
business or political winds change, there will be some lag time. Facts of
life !

As for NMS, look at it like this: hadn’t we had an NMS format, we’d have to
change SoftICE everytime the file format changes. As it stands, we only need
to change the Symbol Loader, which is an application, and as such, more
pliable than a driver. The NMS format shields the debugger from this sort of
moving-target stuff.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 1:25 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?

I’ve got an idea: send softice support questions to compuware/numega rather
than this list. That way Gary and Alberto do not have to go at it :slight_smile:

Softice is a great product. I am in awe of people who can actually use it.
Not being able to keep up with the microsoft beta cycle is however a SERIOUS
HINDERANCE FOR A DRIVER DEVELOPMENT TOOL. The reality is that just as soon
as one version of windows goes to released status, the beta cycle for the
next version starts. It is in fact a perpetual beta, and softice is, and
apparently always will be, seriously lagging microsoft releases. Alberto you
are basically saying: if you use our tools, don’t bother with windows x.x
development until some period AFTER the release. Anyone who needs to release
products concurrent with windows releases is sol. A lot of us have been
building and testing drivers for XP for most of this year, softice simply is
not an option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Little [mailto:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?

Alberto,

My only need is a development/debugger system that works with any release of
Windows. Perhaps the biggest problem with SoftIce is that it insists on
using NMS files instead of the PDB files that are generated by the
compiler/linker? SoftIce does not have a brilliant track record in keeping
up with the latest release of Windows. Period. A new version of XP is
released and the boys and girls using SoftIce start bitching about SoftIce
not working. That is a fact, not something made up.

  1. It is expensive. I can purchase a dual processor system for what it
    costs.
  2. It is not reliable across multiple releases of Windows. Were I using it,
    I could not
    have successfully debugged my drivers across all releases of XP, as those
    releases were released.

And sorry, but I do expect a major tool that I depend on to work, most
specifically when I pay that amount of money.

Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:59 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?

Gary,

I hate to put it this way, but if you really need access to Microsoft
Confidential information, before they decide to release it even to the first
tier development community, maybe you should stick with the Microsoft tools
?

You cannot possibly demand that we provide support for brand new Microsoft
functionality before Microsoft themselves do it ! Nor even simultaneously,
we haven’t got to the crystal ball level as yet, and my name ain’t Gandalf.
If your need is such that only Microsoft products can satisfy it, that’s ok,
but is it fair to throw barbs at us whenever you can, just because we aren’t
Microsoft ? But there are things we can do that they don’t, just like there
are things they do that we don’t - if we couldn’t differentiate somehow,
we’d not sell anything.

Unless we blow it, we’re going to have full XP support this week. I’m not
talking about SoftICE, I’m talking about the whole suite, including full C++
wizard-driven driver development support, an intelligent timing tool, a code
coverage tool, a fully distributed environment over tcp/ip, multiple-master
multiple-target driver development and debugging, and more. Granted, you may
not need any of that, maybe all you need is a debugger that lets you put
together your C code on the latest version of XP in your two-machine
configuration over a serial port. But even then, we will have that too,
soon, the difference is a few weeks, when did XP build 2600 come out ? If
you aren’t willing to wait, fine, but spare us your criticism, because I
don’t quite believe we deserve it.

For the rest of you, bear with me for a little while longer, and you’re
going to see yet another honest product coming out of our ovens.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Little [mailto:xxxxx@Broadstor.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:33 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?

Oh darn, I hate to mention this, but WinDbg has not problems with
symbologies … at all. :slight_smile:

(Da devil made me say that!!!)

Gary G. Little
Staff Engineer
Broadband Storage, Inc.
xxxxx@broadstor.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Moreira, Alberto [mailto:xxxxx@compuware.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 7:57 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with So
ftICE?

You need the forthcoming DriverStudio 2.6 release to run on build 2600 of
Windows XP. We should be shipping a beta version this week to a very limited
set of people. General release is slated for later this year.

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Varadan Venkatesh [mailto:xxxxx@tataelxsi.co.in]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:34 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: How can I debug my driver at source-level with SoftICE?

Hello,

Which version of Windows are you using? There is a problem with the compiler
version of Windows. If we use build utility of Windows build version 2462,
everything will work fine and softice identifies the debug information.
Beyond 2462, this problem arises!

Regards
Venky

–>-----Original Message-----
–>From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
–>[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of kdriver
–>Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:58 AM
–>To: NT Developers Interest List
–>Subject: [ntdev] How can I debug my driver at source-level with
–>SoftICE?
–>
–>
–>Hi, all.
–>
–>I wrote a driver with DDK, and build it with DDK BUILD utility. And
–>then
I
–>want to create a NMS file from the built *.sys file, but the Symbol
Loader
–>told me “No debug information found”, and I’m sure the *.sys was
–>built
with
–>checked build environment… What’s the reason?
–>
–>
–>And I will be very glad if somebody can teach me a way to do that…
–>
–>thanks in advance…
–>
–>
–>—
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