The problem is that you can get “Paper Driver Developers” much in the same
way that you
get “Paper MCSEs”. There are tons of people out there who will teach you
how to pass the
test for MCSE, but leave you incompetent to handle any real-world problems.
IMO, to
anyone other than a PHB or hiring manager, MCSE is a laughable
certification.
Granted, it’s harder for developers, especially driver developers, to be
“paper”, but it will still
happen. And then you get fired and the paper guy stays because you’re not
“certified”.
“Roddy, Mark” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> Yes but mvp is an award, while certification would be a process. Similar
but
> not the same. Anyway, I don’t think certification in and of itself solves
> the problem (which I think is the poor quality of software being
produced,)
> but it might be a step in the right direction. I also don’t think of it as
a
> mandatory, state-sanctioned process, but something more informal. Let the
> market decide if it is useful, and in that there really is no obvious
demand
> for this, perhaps that decision has already been made.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill McKenzie [mailto:xxxxx@bsquare.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:27 PM
> > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for windows device driver
> > developer s
> >
> >
> > Well, I don’t know. That means I am ‘certified’ and that is
> > a really dangerous proposition 
> >
> > Actually, like I said certification probably won’t buy you
> > much. I think better communication/explanation of the driver
> > model would get MS a whole lot closer to where they want to
> > be than certification. I don’t think they are blind to this either.
> >
> > –
> > Bill McKenzie
> >
> >
> >
> > “Robin Mitra” wrote in message
> > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > >
> > > I believe most of us who have been following the postings here for
> > > some while, all agree that the recently awarded DDK MVP awards did
> > > ‘hit’ the right people. Isn’t this also a kind of
> > certification? (of
> > > course probably only those on this list know…)
> > >
> > > Robin Mitra
> > >
> > > “Bill McKenzie” wrote in message
> > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > >
> > > > Well, I am not a big believer in certification, but I do see some
> > > > merit. Something is better than nothing in some cases I guess. I
> > > > have seen a sufficient number of bad haircuts from contractors to
> > > > say that maybe a Microsoft sanctioned cert wouldn’t
> > necessarily be a
> > > > bad thing. Then
> > > again,
> > > > it wouldn’t buy you all that much so… The one area I think it
> > > > might
> > > help
> > > > is Joe Blow’s Hardware Design Emporium might have a
> > better chance of
> > > getting
> > > > someone reasonable as all of Joe’s folks are hardware
> > designers and
> > > > thus can’t even spell driver.
> > > >
> > > > –
> > > > Bill McKenzie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > “Gary G. Little” wrote in message
> > > > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > > >
> > > > > The measure here is competency … not the number of
> > letters after
> > your
> > > > > signature. Measuring competency is a yardstick that is
> > difficult
> > > > > to
> > > find.
> > > > > How does a potential contractee determine if a potential
> > > > > contractor is blowing smoke? One has 20 years in the industry,
> > > > > millions of lines of
> > > code
> > > > > under his belt, personally knows Walter Oney, has had
> > lunch with
> > > > > Jamey Hanrahan, but only has a degree in Phys Ed. The
> > other has a
> > > > > doctorate
> > > from
> > > > > MIT, half the alphabet after his name, wrote his thesis on
> > > > > Framii,
> > has
> > > > > heard of Walter, thought Jamie was a myth, and
> > sacrifices goats to
> > > > > Max weekly. Who should the employer issue the contract,
> > to write a
> > > > > driver
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > > 100 terabit Red Widget?
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe we all need signs like Bill Engvals “STUPID” signs.
> > > > > –
> > > > > Gary G. Little
> > > > > xxxxx@broadstor.com
> > > > > xxxxx@inland.net
> > > > >
> > > > > “Bill McKenzie” wrote in message
> > > > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are assuming no one consults on Windows drivers
> > aren’t you?
> > > > > > How
> > > do
> > > > > you
> > > > > > judge the consultant?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > –
> > > > > > Bill McKenzie
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “Ntdev Reader” wrote in message
> > > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s not deviate too much. Patients do not relate
> > to Doctors
> > > > > > > as Employers to Employees. Patients have no
> > reasonable means
> > > > > > > to evaluate Doctors’ expertise. Some kind of public
> > > > > > > institution is required to do that for them. No so for
> > > > > > > Employers. Your point is thus not acceptable. Let’s not go
> > > > > > > outside of facts and history of our industry. When
> > our company
> > > > > > > tries to hire a driver developer he is invited for
> > interview
> > > > > > > by his would-be-peers. This
> > > certification
> > > > > > > process works very reliably. There are no mistakes
> > made. Now,
> > > imagine
> > > > > > > a guy appears with a certificate issued by
> > Microsoft. Would we
> > hire
> > > > > > > him without our interview now? Stupid question, don’t you
> > > > > > > think? Ok, Ok, if an employer gets many resumes,
> > half of them
> > > > > > > certified, they might put them to the head of the interview
> > > > > > > line. That’s all the cert would buy for them. But I don’t
> > > > > > > think it would be a smart move. Really good people are too
> > > > > > > busy to spend weeks preparing for a certification.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > — “Roddy, Mark” wrote:
> > > > > > > > Er no, doctors go to school for whatever, but in order to
> > practice
> > > > in
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > specialty they get ‘board certified’ by the appropriate
> > > professional
> > > > > > > > association, who may also decertify them. Before
> > you propose
> > > > > > > > a counterfactual you really ought to find out if
> > it is true.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A simple google of:
> > > > > > > > medical certification process
> > > > > > > > would have prevented this mistake.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For example: http://www.abns.org/certproc.htm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have no problem with software professionals getting
> > > > > > > > certified
> > in
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > > area of expertise, as long as the process is fair and
> > reasonable.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Asher Hoodin [mailto:xxxxx@aam-ch.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:04 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for windows device
> > > > > > > > > driver developer s
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They dont get certified they go to college for
> > 10 years.
> > > > > > > > > Big difference. Certification = waste.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > HAND,
> > > > > > > > > Asher
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of
> > > > > > > > > Roddy,
> > Mark
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:32 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for windows device
> > > > > > > > > driver developer s
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You feel the same way about certification of other
> > > > > > > > > professionals, such as, for example, doctors?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Ntdev Reader [mailto:xxxxx@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:29 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for windows device
> > > > > > > > > > driver developers
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD
> > idea. What it
> > > > > > > > > > will turn into is that bosses around will start
> > > > > > > > > > requiring the certification and driver
> > developers will
> > > > > > > > > > have to pay money
> > to
> > > > > > > > > > the certifying authority maybe even including
> > travelling
> > > > > > > > > > there, for who would certify you by e-mail or
> > phone? And
> > your
> > > > > > > > > > current boss will not pay for this, for he
> > already knows
> > your
> > > > > > > > > > abilities. You will have to pay yourself, to get a
> > > > > > > > > > certificate before you find another job. So,
> > this will
> > > > > > > > > > just transfer money from your pocket to the
> > certifier,
> > > > > > > > > > and won’t make you any better developer. And
> > they still
> > > > > > > > > > won’t hire people without experience
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What the original poster’s boss is looking
> > for is likely
> > > > > > > > > > to find pretexts to be able to lay off somebody if a
> > > > > > > > > > need arises. The only cure for this is to spend more
> > > > > > > > > > time
> > learning
> > > > > > > > > > and demonstrating to him that you can to a
> > good job. The
> > boss
> > > > > > > > > > needs reliable drivers in predictable time.
> > If you can
> > > > > > > > > > give him this, he will love you. Otherwise no
> > > > > > > > > > certification will
> > > > help.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > — Asher Hoodin wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM
> > > > > > > > > > Training. Bother
> > > > > > > > > > > to look at the OSR web sight. As for
> > certification in
> > > > > > > > > > general…well
> > > > > > > > > > > MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced
> > > > > > > > > > > workforce
> > > > > > > > > > any good.
> > > > > > > > > > > Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss
> > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > spring for
> > > > > > > > > > > some seminars. I am sure that some third party
> > > > > > > > > > > companies
> > > > > > > > > > have testing
> > > > > > > > > > > available. I will forward
> > > > > > > > > > > the names of the companies shortly.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Asher
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > These not being the best of times, my
> > Boss wants me
> > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > some sort
> > > > > > > > > > > > of tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows
> > > > > > > > > > > > device
> > > driver
> > > > > > > > > > > > development.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one of you know of good certifying
> > > > > > > > > > > > authorities
> > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > driverland. If there are no one, does OSR plan to
> > certify?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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