But they probably earn twice as much as we do also. 
Thank goodness seniority at least seems to matter when
it comes to systems-level programmers, else what do we
have to look forward to…
— Justin Frodsham wrote:
> I bet you a dollar all the anti C++ guys are at
> least ten years older than
> me an grouchy too. The same guys who are mumbling
> something about only
> doing assembly code in the old days.
>
>
> At 02:31 AM 10/21/2002, you wrote:
> >Hmmm… is it the same people who find c++
> incomprehensible who also are
> >infatuated with command line build/text editor
> toolsets? Seems to me it
> >is, but I wonder what the correlation is.
> >
> >Is microsoft developing a ‘driver framework’, and
> is it or is it not a
> >C++ driver class library? If they are, will the
> ‘you can’t use c++ in
> >the kernel’ folks just shut up already?
> >
> >
> >===========================
> >Mark Roddy, bored with the tedious you can’t use
> c++ ‘debate’,
> >Consultant, Microsoft DDK MVP
> >Hollis Technology Solutions
> >xxxxx@hollistech.com
> >www.hollistech.com
> >603-321-1032
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: “Peter Viscarola”
> >To: “NT Developers Interest List”
>
> >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:45:11 -0400
> >Subject: [ntdev] Re: C++ in kernel. was Re: Batch
> file for Visual Studio
> >build,
> >
> > > “Andrew Sloven”
> wrote in message
> > > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > >
> > > > It’s up to programmer to decide under which
> > > > circumstances to use certain language.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Or not. Can you write drivers for NT today in
> VB (even VB.NET)? Or in
> > > IA64
> > > assembler language?
> > >
> > > Well, you COULD do these things but the effort
> required makes them
> > > impractical, at the very least. So, at least at
> face value your
> > > statement
> > > isn’t valid.
> > >
> > > But aside from that: I just hope whoever winds
> up with a driver that
> > > you
> > > decided to write in C++ has the same capability
> at maintaining it,
> > > changing
> > > it, and re-working it that you would have.
> > >
> > > You see, it’s not really about YOU… it’s about
> everybody ELSE.
> > >
> > > When I write code, I realize that I’m likely not
> the last person to
> > > touch
> > > it. It’ll be tweaked, prodded, and poked by all
> sorts of engineers –
> > > who
> > > will range in talent from supremely competent to
> utter moron.
> > >
> > > So, just as I carefully choose what syntax to
> use to express a concept
> > > (to
> > > ensure utmost clarity for those who come after
> me), one must do
> > > likewise
> > > when choosing a language.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > > OSR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >—
> >You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> zeppelin@io.com
> >To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> %%email.unsub%%
>
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@nryan.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
%%email.unsub%%
=====
- Nicholas Ryan
> I bet you a dollar all the anti C++ guys are at least ten years
older than
me an grouchy too. The same guys who are mumbling something about
only
doing assembly code in the old days.
No. I started with C++ and worked with it for years - first UI, then
COM component development, tightly coupled to SQL databases. There
were times when I remembered Stroustroup/Ellis book nearly by heart.
After this experience, and then experience with the C kernel mode
coding, I can tell that C++ is just not so suitable for many tasks,
including system-level development. It hardens a task with all its
inheritance etc. instead of simplifying it.
I’m not so old.
Max
Yeah … if/when we are working … )
Gary G. Little
Have Computer, Will Travel …
909-698-3191
909-551-2105
“Nicholas Ryan” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> But they probably earn twice as much as we do also.
> Thank goodness seniority at least seems to matter when
> it comes to systems-level programmers, else what do we
> have to look forward to…
>
> - Nicholas Ryan
>
> — Justin Frodsham wrote:
> > I bet you a dollar all the anti C++ guys are at
> > least ten years older than
> > me an grouchy too. The same guys who are mumbling
> > something about only
> > doing assembly code in the old days.
> >
> >
> > At 02:31 AM 10/21/2002, you wrote:
> > >Hmmm… is it the same people who find c++
> > incomprehensible who also are
> > >infatuated with command line build/text editor
> > toolsets? Seems to me it
> > >is, but I wonder what the correlation is.
> > >
> > >Is microsoft developing a ‘driver framework’, and
> > is it or is it not a
> > >C++ driver class library? If they are, will the
> > ‘you can’t use c++ in
> > >the kernel’ folks just shut up already?
> > >
> > >
> > >===========================
> > >Mark Roddy, bored with the tedious you can’t use
> > c++ ‘debate’,
> > >Consultant, Microsoft DDK MVP
> > >Hollis Technology Solutions
> > >xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > >www.hollistech.com
> > >603-321-1032
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: “Peter Viscarola”
> > >To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> >
> > >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:45:11 -0400
> > >Subject: [ntdev] Re: C++ in kernel. was Re: Batch
> > file for Visual Studio
> > >build,
> > >
> > > > “Andrew Sloven”
> > wrote in message
> > > > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s up to programmer to decide under which
> > > > > circumstances to use certain language.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or not. Can you write drivers for NT today in
> > VB (even VB.NET)? Or in
> > > > IA64
> > > > assembler language?
> > > >
> > > > Well, you COULD do these things but the effort
> > required makes them
> > > > impractical, at the very least. So, at least at
> > face value your
> > > > statement
> > > > isn’t valid.
> > > >
> > > > But aside from that: I just hope whoever winds
> > up with a driver that
> > > > you
> > > > decided to write in C++ has the same capability
> > at maintaining it,
> > > > changing
> > > > it, and re-working it that you would have.
> > > >
> > > > You see, it’s not really about YOU… it’s about
> > everybody ELSE.
> > > >
> > > > When I write code, I realize that I’m likely not
> > the last person to
> > > > touch
> > > > it. It’ll be tweaked, prodded, and poked by all
> > sorts of engineers –
> > > > who
> > > > will range in talent from supremely competent to
> > utter moron.
> > > >
> > > > So, just as I carefully choose what syntax to
> > use to express a concept
> > > > (to
> > > > ensure utmost clarity for those who come after
> > me), one must do
> > > > likewise
> > > > when choosing a language.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > > OSR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > %%email.unsub%%
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >—
> > >You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > zeppelin@io.com
> > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> > xxxxx@nryan.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> %%email.unsub%%
>
>
> =====
> - Nicholas Ryan
>
>
>
Max,
You are very right because writing device drivers is something like playing
directly with the hardware and to do that one needs a language which is much
more near to the hardware a simple way to understand it is (though i dont
know about HDL but i am sure) that after assembly you only have C which is
more near to hardware instead of C++.Thats why it is needed and exists even
after 20-25 yrs of invention of ritchy.
–Subodh
----- Original Message -----
From: “Maxim S. Shatskih”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:28 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: C++ in kernel. was Re: Batch file for Visual Studio
build,
> > I bet you a dollar all the anti C++ guys are at least ten years
> older than
> > me an grouchy too. The same guys who are mumbling something about
> only
> > doing assembly code in the old days.
>
> No. I started with C++ and worked with it for years - first UI, then
> COM component development, tightly coupled to SQL databases. There
> were times when I remembered Stroustroup/Ellis book nearly by heart.
>
> After this experience, and then experience with the C kernel mode
> coding, I can tell that C++ is just not so suitable for many tasks,
> including system-level development. It hardens a task with all its
> inheritance etc. instead of simplifying it.
>
> I’m not so old.
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@softhome.net
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%