Off topic? VisualStudio.net

NTDEV
1

Devs,

Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including VisualStudio.net.
Included was a January 2002 library THAT ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in,
"please keep your MSDN library from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio
6.0 and earlier.

So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be another, new,
official Way to Do Things. If you want updated MSDN docs to use with Visual
Studio, upgrade to .net.

My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything useful for us
device driver developers? Or is it merely another reason to learn another
different way of doing something that we are already comfortable with?

-Evan

Evan Hillman
General Standards
435-755-0309

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2

It will do pretty much what VS does, with the major exception that, at least
in the Beta version I played around with, source code browsing was either:
broken, featured-to-death, or an abomination from hell.

Oh yes, and ‘external makefile projects’ had been ‘enhanced’ as well so that
it is difficult to organize driver projects, which is a real step forward in
that with VS it was trivial. I actually filed a bug report on the fact that
external makefile projects had lost functionality and at the same time were
not customizable. I think the response was something like ‘deal with it’.

As the reason I use VS is that it supports driver development with a
(minimally functional) IDE, minimal project management support, and
excellent source code browsing, I guess I give up msdn help integration
rather than try to push .net to do things it doesn’t want to do, at least
until VS is so creaky there is no choice but to move forward. Emacs anyone?

-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Hillman [mailto:xxxxx@attbi.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 1:32 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Off topic? VisualStudio.net

Devs,

Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including
VisualStudio.net. Included was a January 2002 library THAT
ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in, "please keep your MSDN library
from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio 6.0 and earlier.

So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be
another, new, official Way to Do Things. If you want updated
MSDN docs to use with Visual Studio, upgrade to .net.

My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything
useful for us device driver developers? Or is it merely
another reason to learn another different way of doing
something that we are already comfortable with?

-Evan

Evan Hillman
General Standards
435-755-0309

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3

> ----------

From: xxxxx@stratus.com[SMTP:xxxxx@stratus.com]
Reply To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 7:45 PM
To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
Subject: [ntdev] RE: Off topic? VisualStudio.net

It will do pretty much what VS does, with the major exception that, at
least
in the Beta version I played around with, source code browsing was either:
broken, featured-to-death, or an abomination from hell.

Mark, can you explain it more? Browsing is my personal hobby :wink: VS
implementation is simple (and efficient) and maps mostly 1:1 to BSC
functions. I’d like to know how it is possible to broke something like this
and don’t want to install .net.

until VS is so creaky there is no choice but to move forward. Emacs
anyone?

Why? Multi-Edit, CodeWright, SlickEdit… the first is my choice.

P.S. There is some holiday in USA this week? Few mails in the list and no
replies to direct mails from people who usually responds…

Best regards,

Michal Vodicka
STMicroelectronics Design and Application s.r.o.
[michal.vodicka@st.com, http:://www.st.com]

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4

That is probably why the new DDK does not need to use VS’s nmake. They are
pulling driver developers off of any dependency on having VS installed so
that they don’t need to make VS work for them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Hillman [mailto:xxxxx@attbi.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:32 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Off topic? VisualStudio.net

Devs,

Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including
VisualStudio.net. Included was a January 2002 library THAT
ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in, "please keep your MSDN library
from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio 6.0 and earlier.

So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be
another, new, official Way to Do Things. If you want updated
MSDN docs to use with Visual Studio, upgrade to .net.

My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything
useful for us device driver developers? Or is it merely
another reason to learn another different way of doing
something that we are already comfortable with?

-Evan

Evan Hillman
General Standards
435-755-0309

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5

People who just want good source browsing might take a look at Source
Insight (www.sourceinsight.com). I’ve been very happy with it.

++PLS

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Youngblood [mailto:xxxxx@legato.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 1:23 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: Off topic? VisualStudio.net

That is probably why the new DDK does not need to use VS’s nmake. They are
pulling driver developers off of any dependency on having VS installed so
that they don’t need to make VS work for them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Hillman [mailto:xxxxx@attbi.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:32 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Off topic? VisualStudio.net

Devs,

Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including
VisualStudio.net. Included was a January 2002 library THAT
ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in, "please keep your MSDN library
from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio 6.0 and earlier.

So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be
another, new, official Way to Do Things. If you want updated
MSDN docs to use with Visual Studio, upgrade to .net.

My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything
useful for us device driver developers? Or is it merely
another reason to learn another different way of doing
something that we are already comfortable with?

-Evan

Evan Hillman
General Standards
435-755-0309

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6

until VS is so creaky there is no choice but to move forward. Emacs anyone?
I prefer gvim+ctags. work fine for me.
And i use unix-like makefiles so i do not need Vs at all, just cl and make.
But again i guess that this can lead to another endless religious discussion.
Ilya.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Hillman [mailto:xxxxx@attbi.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 1:32 PM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Off topic? VisualStudio.net
>
>
> Devs,
>
> Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including
> VisualStudio.net. Included was a January 2002 library THAT
> ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in, "please keep your MSDN library
> from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio 6.0 and earlier.
>
> So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be
> another, new, official Way to Do Things. If you want updated
> MSDN docs to use with Visual Studio, upgrade to .net.
>
> My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything
> useful for us device driver developers? Or is it merely
> another reason to learn another different way of doing
> something that we are already comfortable with?
>
> -Evan
>
> Evan Hillman
> General Standards
> 435-755-0309
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>

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7

> until VS is so creaky there is no choice but to move forward. Emacs anyone?

I prefer gvim+ctags. work fine for me.

I prefer MSVC editor. Custom is a second nature :slight_smile:

And i use unix-like makefiles so i do not need Vs at all, just cl and make.

IMHO MSVC’s projects are good only when wizards like MFC or ATL are used.
For other kinds of projects, I prefer BUILD. MSVC introduces some unnecessary semantics.

Max

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8

Apparently Microsoft made it impossible to use VS6 for drivers by including
the new compiler into the DDK, which must be used for XP targets. However,
DriverWorks Rev. 2.6 allows VS6 to use the new XP compiler, so, you can use
the VS6 IDE to put together your drivers.

Now, AFAIK that compiler is the same C++ compiler that’s supplied with
vs.net. We’re coming up with DriverWorks and DriverStudio 2.7. Watch this
space !

Alberto.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ilya Lifshits [mailto:xxxxx@jungo.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 3:37 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: Off topic? VisualStudio.net

until VS is so creaky there is no choice but to move forward. Emacs anyone?
I prefer gvim+ctags. work fine for me.
And i use unix-like makefiles so i do not need Vs at all, just cl and make.
But again i guess that this can lead to another endless religious
discussion.
Ilya.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Hillman [mailto:xxxxx@attbi.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 1:32 PM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Off topic? VisualStudio.net
>
>
> Devs,
>
> Yesterday I received a MSDN special shipment including
> VisualStudio.net. Included was a January 2002 library THAT
> ONLY WORKS WITH .NET as in, "please keep your MSDN library
> from October 2001 for use with Visual Studio 6.0 and earlier.
>
> So the handwriting is on the toilet. There is going to be
> another, new, official Way to Do Things. If you want updated
> MSDN docs to use with Visual Studio, upgrade to .net.
>
> My question is - does this VisualStudio.net thing do anything
> useful for us device driver developers? Or is it merely
> another reason to learn another different way of doing
> something that we are already comfortable with?
>
> -Evan
>
> Evan Hillman
> General Standards
> 435-755-0309
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@stratus.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> leave-ntdev-$subst(‘Recip.MemberIDChar’)@lists.osr.com
>

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9

>As far as I know, DriverStudio 2.6 gives you the full VS6 Shell

functionality and C++ drivers: setddkgo, and you don’t need to worry about
makefiles any longer, not really. Next step dotnet !

Again this is a question of taste, i prefer worry about my makefiles :slight_smile:

Regards Ilya.

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