Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it? Was there some kind of major leak
in the bit pipeline to Massachusetts?
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it? Was there some kind of major leak
in the bit pipeline to Massachusetts?
–
Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
Hmm–“leak in the bit pipeline” must have been why it actually felt warm
around here for a change :-).
–mkj
On 3/9/2015 12:43 PM, Tim Roberts wrote:
Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it? Was there some kind of major leak
in the bit pipeline to Massachusetts?
–
– mkj
//
// Michael K. Jones
// Stone Hill Consulting, LLC
// http://www.stonehill.com
//_______________________________________________
perhaps the roof collapsed over at OSR from the snow?
Mark Roddy
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Tim Roberts wrote:
> Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
> That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it? Was there some kind of major leak
> in the bit pipeline to Massachusetts?
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday? That’s almost
unheard of, isn’t it?
< ironical mode>
As I can see, you decided to fix the situation by starting a thread that is a way too off-topic even for NTTALK, right?
< /ironical mode>
Anton Bassov
[Edited by mods]
> Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it?
For weekends, this is rather usual.
But yes, the list traffic dropped a lot. A couple of years ago we had like 100 messages per day.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
There’s been a steady decline over the years in the number of posts.
If you go back to 2010, we averaged almost 2,000 posts a month. If you look at 2014, we averaged about 1,000.
We had a significant drop-off in November 2014… anybody have any idea why that would be?
I’ll be back in a second to deal with Mr. Bassov’s post…
Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers
Sooooo… Mr. Bassov…
Must you ALWAYS push the line of what’s acceptable, and then go past it? Do you view yourself as some sort of social critic, who is trying to help society question what constitutes “good taste” and acceptable social behavior? Or are you actually a teenager who is trying to learn his limits by testing mommy and daddy’s patience?
I can’t think of any other reason why you would write such a crude, abusive, and pointlessly nasty post about a former member… who isn’t even on the list any more so he can defend himself. Not that it would be acceptable for you to write such a post even if he WAS still a member!
What on earth did this guy ever do to you to deserve such a personally and professionally abusive diatribe?
I’ve edited your response so those who access the list via the forum won’t be subjected to your disgusting display of immaturity.
As to the status of any current or former member of the list, let me make it clear to you: It’s none of your fucking business.
We keep you on this list, Mr. Bassov, because you sometimes challenge orthodoxy (which I generally enjoy), and you provide us (well, me particularly, I suppose) with some occasional comic relief.
Judging by the complaints I got about your post, there are people on this list who think less charitably about your posts, in general, than I do. And people who think less of you than you think of the former member you insulted earlier.
So, don’t push your luck any further. Personal abuse on the list won’t be tolerated. Don’t make me put you on moderation or ban you for being an ignorant churl.
Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers
(I’m going to lock this thread to prevent it from turning into a discussion of Mr. Bassov’s rudeness. Any complains, comments, discussion, directly to me please.
Anyone who REALLY wants to abuse current or former members of the list, save The List Slaves time and unsubscribe now, please. Because I won’t have it.).
(seq: 0901945E-C137-AED4-214363A7B06BEAB5)
FYI: The List Slaves have re-opened this thread. You may once again post replies to this topic.
The thread was locked simply to prevent discussion of Mr. Bassov’s post.
Offline Mr. Bassov sent me a very nice apology. So, no further need to discuss this topic at all.
I’m happy to have folks discuss the original “Off-topic Meta-Discussion” question of “why the decrease in numbers of posts” here… so I’ve re-opened the thread.
This is, indeed, an interesting and worthy subject – And I noticed a couple of useful posts were blocked because of the lock.
If Mr. Chen and/or Mr. Kemp would like to repost their comments, that would be a good thing.
Peter
OSR
@OSRDrivers
I would speculate the drop off is a direct relationship to Microsoft opening their own WDK forum. Remember that until a few years ago it didn’t exist. But now the Microsoft WDK forum is busier than here and growing. The Microsoft forum format is improved with things like check marked answers and merit for posters and being on the Microsoft website gets automatic legitimacy over others. I see osronline becoming a mainstay for legacy developers who have been with it for a long time and maybe the occasional newbie who wanders in with a question. More and more the Microsoft WDK forum is where the action is.
> Offline Mr. Bassov sent me a very nice apology.
Actually, I would like to repeat it online as well - no matter what I think about whom and to which extent (if any) my opinion on the person in question is justified, there is simply no need to express it on NTDEV…
My apologies
Anton Bassov
MS site for DDK has been around for sometime. Can not remember whether
it was specific to DDK/Kernel or all-in-one.
It is the market that brought everything down. Windows kernel
development(s) were quite big in numbers compare to others before the
great recession started looming over our head. Then there was a
massive off-shoring. Finally there were enough people to handle the
works that were available during those bad years.
On the other side of the game, and as I mentioned back in 2010, that
people were moving fast toward Apple, and Linux became quite stable in
the server side as well as on desktop. But the main player is apple. I
see at home i.e at play, and in offices.
This will take sometime, before another momentum ( huge mass * delta
velocity ) comes !
Pro
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:47 AM, wrote:
> I would speculate the drop off is a direct relationship to Microsoft opening their own WDK forum. Remember that until a few years ago it didn’t exist. But now the Microsoft WDK forum is busier than here and growing. The Microsoft forum format is improved with things like check marked answers and merit for posters and being on the Microsoft website gets automatic legitimacy over others. I see osronline becoming a mainstay for legacy developers who have been with it for a long time and maybe the occasional newbie who wanders in with a question. More and more the Microsoft WDK forum is where the action is.
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> I would speculate the drop off is a direct relationship to Microsoft opening their own WDK forum. >Remember that until a few years ago it didn’t exist. But now the Microsoft WDK forum is
busier than here and growing.
Actually, IIRC, MSFT NGs have been around for ages, with “drivers” NG with being one of them. Historically, in terms of overall activity(i.e. the number of post/active posters) these NGs have been ahead of OSR. However, this is not about the number of posters - it is more about the quality of replies, and this is where OSR is miles ahead. In fact, I would say that there is exactly the inverse relationship betwen these two “indicators”. More on it below…
The Microsoft forum format is improved with things like check marked answers
and merit for posters and being on the Microsoft website gets automatic legitimacy over others.
Now consider what happens when, say, 1000 “sub-par” developers start rating one another’s posts
while none of them has sufficient knowledge of the subject…
I see osronline becoming a mainstay for legacy developers who have been with it for a long time
Seems to be just a classical description of the place where one should look for quality info, don’t you think…
Anton Bassov
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Maxim S. Shatskih
wrote:
>> Was there really only one message to this mailing list all day Sunday?
>> That’s almost unheard of, isn’t it?
>
> For weekends, this is rather usual.
>
> But yes, the list traffic dropped a lot. A couple of years ago we had like 100 messages per day.
>
I think one of the reasons could be the MSDN forum gets more
and more popular. You can see some Microsoft experts and some
experts here answering question there.
https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-US/home?forum=wdk
–
Xiaofan
Do you mean answers.microsoft.com?
wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>I would speculate the drop off is a direct relationship to Microsoft opening their own WDK forum. Remember that until a few years ago it didn’t exist. But now the Microsoft WDK forum is busier than here and growing. The Microsoft forum format is improved with things like check marked answers and merit for posters and being on the Microsoft website gets automatic legitimacy over others. I see osronline becoming a mainstay for legacy developers who have been with it for a long time and maybe the occasional newbie who wanders in with a question. More and more the Microsoft WDK forum is where the action is.
>
>
>I suspect two key reasons for overall decline:
Doubts.
Better tools from Microsoft lead to fewer questions; and
No, worse tools the number of tools-related questions have grown
Vista was a long time ago now and no similar paradigm shifts have happened
Yes, but this is for years, and the decline is last year only.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I think one of the reasons could be the MSDN forum gets more
> and more popular. You can see some Microsoft experts and some
> experts here answering question there.
> https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-US/home?forum=wdk
>
The other potential reason is that the number of
Windows driver developer may be less and less now.
I subscribed to Linux-usb list and the traffic there is already
more than OSR lists combined. And that is just a relatively
small sub-system.
Not directly related but for embedded software development,
we find it is much easier to find people with Linux/Android
experiences than Windows CE we want.
–
Xiaofan
Actually, there has been a decrease in questions on the Microsoft WDK forum also. I answer a lot there, and there have been a number of weekends in the last 6 months where no questions were asked.
I think it is a combination of a lot of things that is slowing down the questions on the Microsoft forum and here. Some of these are good, and some are terrible, the good include:
On the bad:
Finally, lot of work was off shored, and in many of the countries that it moved to the community there is trying to answer the questions. Whether this is good or bad, is hard to say, but when the questions do percolate up to Microsoft forums, many times the best answer would be “kill off the project team and start over”
Don Burn
Windows Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
> This will take sometime, before another momentum ( huge mass * delta velocity ) comes !
Well, momentum will certainly come at some point, but I think you are looking for it in the wrong
place - you are looking towards the past, rather than the future…
MSFT already had its “momentum” with Windows (i.e an OS for desktops) back in 1990s, and Apple had its “momentum” (although to much smaller extent) in 2000s with its iPhone/iPad/iWhatever family of products. These things are already there. You can think of them as of some kind of washing machine/fridge/microwave/etc, i.e. a useful appliance that is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever) because it makes our life convenient, and, hence, is almost guaranteed to keeps its market niche. However, if you are looking for a boom potential you should be looking elsewhere.
I think that the next “new kid on the block” is going to be “smartXYZ”/ Internet of Things/etc,
i.e. a network of extremely limited wireless computing devices that are powered by a battery but, despite this, are required to be accesssible across the Internet, as well as to communicate with one another. Practically all currently available embedded OSes are simply unsuitable for these devices. For example, embedded Linux requires a 32-bit CPU and at least 1M of RAM. However, these devices will have just 1-4 K of RAM, an 8-bit CPU, ADC/DAC and a transceiver
In other words, it is going to be an advent of totally different platforms in terms of both hardware and software, and, hence, of totally different players…
Anton Bassov
>For example, embedded Linux requires a 32-bit CPU and at least 1M of RAM. However, these
devices will have just 1-4 K of RAM, an 8-bit CPU, ADC/DAC and a transceiver
Why not 32bit CPU? entry-level ARMs are very cheap. Raspberry Pi (priced as a cheap cellphone, and yes, it really looks like the PCB from the cheap cellphone) is not much more expensive then Arduino
With 1-4K of RAM (even Arduino has more IIRC) you can hardly do anything useful. Even 640KB is not so enough
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Microsoft MVP on File System And Storage
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com