I think this is the best place to ask this 
If you ppl where to use a kernel debugger a la NTICE
(running on same machine with target)
, what would be the preffered features and user
interface functionality wich you would like to see in
it ? Just let go your imagination and tell me wich is
the âdream debuggerâ you always wanted to have.
Thank you for your time , your feedback is important
to me.
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the answer is very easy. Use a console GUI like Borland
Turbo Debugger.
The Softice console is old junk from yesterday.
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At the risk of starting a really pointless thread, I wish there was a
debugger with both styles of interface⌠I prefer the command line one
myself, itâs quicker than my having to jump through 5 or 6 layered
windows and try and adjust them all to see exactly what I want and to
make it fit nicely on the screen⌠On the other hand, many people
prefer a product that does GUI-style debugging⌠and it would be nice
to have the same debugger on other peopleâs machines so if theyâre using
the gui and you want to debug something on their machine you can switch
to a command-line, and not have to relocate symbols or re-setup source
locations, etcâŚ
Mathias Ellinger wrote:
the answer is very easy. Use a console GUI like Borland
Turbo Debugger.
The Softice console is old junk from yesterday.
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What you just described is our dear friend windbag. Just donât use any
windows except the command window.
Mark Roddy
xxxxx@hollistech.com
www.hollistech.com
WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Bullington [mailto:xxxxx@stg.com]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 12:18 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Kernel debugger functionality
At the risk of starting a really pointless thread, I wish there was a
debugger with both styles of interface⌠I prefer the
command line one
myself, itâs quicker than my having to jump through 5 or 6 layered
windows and try and adjust them all to see exactly what I want and to
make it fit nicely on the screen⌠On the other hand, many people
prefer a product that does GUI-style debugging⌠and it would be nice
to have the same debugger on other peopleâs machines so if
theyâre using
the gui and you want to debug something on their machine you
can switch
to a command-line, and not have to relocate symbols or re-setup source
locations, etcâŚ
Mathias Ellinger wrote:
> the answer is very easy. Use a console GUI like Borland
> Turbo Debugger.
> The Softice console is old junk from yesterday.
>
> â
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One thing about the SoftIce console: is must be able to operate when the OS
and its windowing system are inoperative. For example, try to debug before
the OS finishes booting, or try to debug the display driver itself, or
single step through a graphics intensive 3D program such as a game or a big
time full-screen OpenGL app or benchmark. More, the SoftIce console is
designed to be the same on a graphics screen, on a text-only terminal, or on
a monochrome monitor. SoftIce is a kernel mode debugger, it sits underneath
the OS and operates on the bare machine. Once the OS and the windowing
system are up and visible, any debugger will do, but then, you donât really
need SoftIce for that, do you ?
Unless of course kernel-level debugging is old junk from yesterday ?
Alberto.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mathias Ellinger [mailto:xxxxx@Ellisoft.de]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 12:01 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Kernel debugger functionality
the answer is very easy. Use a console GUI like Borland
Turbo Debugger.
The Softice console is old junk from yesterday.
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I would like WinDbg to have DataTips (or how they are called in MSVC IDE)?
The yellow tooltips appearing when you position the mouse at some variable
name in the source window. They display the variable value.
This appeared in MSVC 4 IIRC - and was a very, very convinient thing.
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: âPartelly Danâ
To: âNT Developers Interest Listâ
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 7:34 PM
Subject: [ntdev] Kernel debugger functionality
>
> I think this is the best place to ask this
>
> If you ppl where to use a kernel debugger a la NTICE
> (running on same machine with target)
> , what would be the preffered features and user
> interface functionality wich you would like to see in
> it ? Just let go your imagination and tell me wich is
> the âdream debuggerâ you always wanted to have.
>
> Thank you for your time , your feedback is important
> to me.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> â
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>
â
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> the OS and operates on the bare machine. Once the OS and the windowing
system are up and visible, any debugger will do, but then, you donât
really
need SoftIce for that, do you ?
No, people are suggesting SI to have the same hardware-implemented window
(without the help of the rest of the OS) - but with another style of this
window internal - more like the Borlandâs Turbo Debugger (the fullscreen DOS
pseudo-graphic app).
Max
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Hello ,
MA> One thing about the SoftIce console: is must be able to operate when the OS
MA> and its windowing system are inoperative. For example, try to debug before
âŚ
I donât need a grafic windows GUI. The text based console is enough,
but what I need is a SAA like windows based GUI like borland turbo vision.
I mean this is very easy to compile the old borland code into a new
environment. (some linux people do that). I will move my mouse pointer
over a identifier in my code and can press the rigth mouse button and
can see in a new window what is here âŚ
Somes bodys likes the pure console mode and write commands and get the
the response in a line. Iâam not.
elli
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- feature:
Assuming that your drive in the target uses some simple filesystem
(e.g.FAT) and your network-adapter is ne2000 compatible it would be
great to update my driver that just crashed the machine in the
debugger. Then you reboot.
This would save one reboot. ( 30 times a day x 1 minute ⌠).
- :
When setting a watch on a structure where the pointer resides in
register (e.g. this==ECX), the address you watch should become
permanent. As it is now (in SI) you may loose context after some steps
through the code.
âA bacon & egg breakfast illustrates the difference between
involvement & commitment. The chicken is involved. The pig is
committed.â
I think this is the best place to ask this
If you ppl where to use a kernel debugger a la NTICE
(running on same machine with target)
, what would be the preffered features and user
interface functionality wich you would like to see in
it ? Just let go your imagination and tell me wich is
the âdream debuggerâ you always wanted to have.
Thank you for your time , your feedback is important
to me.
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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This first feature is something Iâd pay good money for. If Iâm working on a
boot problem to begin with this can save me 2 boots for each failed test (1.
The test boot, 2. the Winâ98 swap drivers boot 3. the boot into the OS)
after which Iâve context switched. âProductivity ainât happening.â
Michael S. Jackson
xxxxx@wrq.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Norbert Kawulski [mailto:xxxxx@stollmann.de]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:29 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Kernel debugger functionality
- feature:
Assuming that your drive in the target uses some simple filesystem
(e.g.FAT) and your network-adapter is ne2000 compatible it would be
great to update my driver that just crashed the machine in the
debugger. Then you reboot.
This would save one reboot. ( 30 times a day x 1 minute ⌠).
- :
When setting a watch on a structure where the pointer resides in
register (e.g. this==ECX), the address you watch should become
permanent. As it is now (in SI) you may loose context after some steps
through the code.
âA bacon & egg breakfast illustrates the difference between
involvement & commitment. The chicken is involved. The pig is
committed.â
I think this is the best place to ask this
If you ppl where to use a kernel debugger a la NTICE
(running on same machine with target)
, what would be the preffered features and user
interface functionality wich you would like to see in
it ? Just let go your imagination and tell me wich is
the âdream debuggerâ you always wanted to have.
Thank you for your time , your feedback is important
to me.
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@wrq.com
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> ----------
From: Mathias Ellinger[SMTP:xxxxx@ellisoft.de]
Reply To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 3:12 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Kernel debugger functionality
I donât need a grafic windows GUI. The text based console is enough,
but what I need is a SAA like windows based GUI like borland turbo vision.
I mean this is very easy to compile the old borland code into a new
environment. (some linux people do that). I will move my mouse pointer
over a identifier in my code and can press the rigth mouse button and
can see in a new window what is here âŚ
SoftICE also supports something like this. Right mouse button menu ->
Display sets data window address to an expession under mouse pointer. With
Previous function it is invaluable and much more effective than TV-like
interface.
Somes bodys likes the pure console mode and write commands and get the
the response in a line. Iâam not.
Well, people are different. I had to use Turbo Debugger some time and it was
nightmare for me. Ineffective UI which forced me to arrange windows
constantly. I prefer SoftICE which supports both command line and windows.
Windows may seem ugly but thatâs because they donât waste space for frames,
scrollbars and similar nonsense. Also, they donât overlap which is an
advantage for me. SoftICE interface could be improved a little (for example
more data windows at once would be useful sometimes) but in principle it is
right and effective for experienced user. It may not be easy for a beginner;
one have to learn some commands and hotkeys (or map own) but it is right for
a tool which is used everyday.
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
Veridicom
(RKK - Skytale)
[WWW: http://www.veridicom.com , http://www.skytale.com]
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