Free Software

> So the billion year wait is finally over, and here’s the superior life

form: the Penguin. www.kernel.org.
The code is the documentation - the whole kernel is completely, 100%
documented. All the real life, working drivers are to your service as
examples.

(Anybody not happy yet?! sure… never, ever can make everybody happy.)
Regards,
–PA

When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and giving
them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left for
the birds to eat.

I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work for
nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!

Bill M.

I’m not sure whether that was a tongue-in-cheek troll remark or not, but I’ll bite, once more. (Seems like I have a bad habit of doing that lately.)

I think the distinction is that people who work on projects that give away their code freely typically (though not always) do so for “fun”, and not for “work”. There’s an important difference there.

Just because somebody writes something for fun in their own time and wants to share it does not make them a moron. I do paid software work, and I’ve also put out code that I have worked on my spare time when I thought it made sense to (as well as having just given out binaries for stuff that I have done in my spare time; again, it depends). I certainly do not think that this would make me a “moron”. I also don’t really buy the “competing with myself” type argument either, as the stuff that I usually poke around with on my free time isn’t typically something that would impinge upon what I do for work.

I am certainly not one of the people preaching that every line of code ever written should be freely released. However, I think there’s certainly a lot of good reasons to release code.

In fact, you are probably benefiting from that right now, in the terms of the WDK samples, many of which are production, shipping code. (Although those aren’t free in the sense of most open source projects, but it is certainly source code made available free of charge.)

In the case of the Linux kernel, I’m pretty sure that it just started out as a fun thing that somebody was doing in their spare time and/or for university related work. Sometimes, side projects grow into something more than expected. That doesn’t make you a bad person if you decide to use said side project and then decide that you want to tweak a thing here or there, and then, whoops, you’ve contributed to an open source project.

In fact, I would put forward that most of the people who are actually the really good software developers out there tend to write code in their spare time every now and then, for fun, whether it’s given away freely or not.

  • S

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Bill McKenzie
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:00 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Free Software

So the billion year wait is finally over, and here’s the superior life
form: the Penguin. www.kernel.org.
The code is the documentation - the whole kernel is completely, 100%
documented. All the real life, working drivers are to your service as
examples.

(Anybody not happy yet?! sure… never, ever can make everybody happy.)
Regards,
–PA

When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and giving
them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left for
the birds to eat.

I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work for
nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!

Bill M.


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Bill, Bill, Bill…

The Windows DDK is free. You can download it for no cost. That’s a BAD thing??

The utilities we write here at OSR are free… we’re morons for doing that??

I write quite a bit of software for use by Amateur Radio Operators. I give it away, as a contribution to the overall community. I should be shot on site?

Bill? What IS your point?

Peter
OSR

Bill McKenzie wrote:

When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and giving
them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left for
the birds to eat.

I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work for
nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!

On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build
his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

So we can convienently get back to Barter process, right?

Great idea !!!

-pro

Bill McKenzie wrote:
> When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and
> giving
> them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left
> for
> the birds to eat.
>
> I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
> plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work
> for
> nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
> else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!
>

On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build
his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.


Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

This model have been adopted long before Linux or open source or whatever
techies think these days …

Intention is noble does not necessarily mean the consequence is noble.

To have a free OS ( like Linux …) does not make sense from the normal
structure of the society… If I’m thirsty and stop by my neighbor’s house,
I will get a free glass of water. But my neighbor thinks they need to
capture the utility company around that place, then there is something
else…

Hundereds of years ago, free pants, shirts, boots were given to Japanese
people and lot of other countries including the free ( the most I would like
to have ) alchol and cigarettes …

Guess what, none of them are free now …

-pro

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Skywing wrote:

> I’m not sure whether that was a tongue-in-cheek troll remark or not, but
> I’ll bite, once more. (Seems like I have a bad habit of doing that lately.)
>
> I think the distinction is that people who work on projects that give away
> their code freely typically (though not always) do so for “fun”, and not for
> “work”. There’s an important difference there.
>
> Just because somebody writes something for fun in their own time and wants
> to share it does not make them a moron. I do paid software work, and I’ve
> also put out code that I have worked on my spare time when I thought it made
> sense to (as well as having just given out binaries for stuff that I have
> done in my spare time; again, it depends). I certainly do not think that
> this would make me a “moron”. I also don’t really buy the “competing with
> myself” type argument either, as the stuff that I usually poke around with
> on my free time isn’t typically something that would impinge upon what I do
> for work.
>
> I am certainly not one of the people preaching that every line of code ever
> written should be freely released. However, I think there’s certainly a lot
> of good reasons to release code.
>
> In fact, you are probably benefiting from that right now, in the terms of
> the WDK samples, many of which are production, shipping code. (Although
> those aren’t free in the sense of most open source projects, but it is
> certainly source code made available free of charge.)
>
> In the case of the Linux kernel, I’m pretty sure that it just started out
> as a fun thing that somebody was doing in their spare time and/or for
> university related work. Sometimes, side projects grow into something more
> than expected. That doesn’t make you a bad person if you decide to use said
> side project and then decide that you want to tweak a thing here or there,
> and then, whoops, you’ve contributed to an open source project.
>
> In fact, I would put forward that most of the people who are actually the
> really good software developers out there tend to write code in their spare
> time every now and then, for fun, whether it’s given away freely or not.
>
> - S
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Bill McKenzie
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:00 PM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Free Software
>
> > So the billion year wait is finally over, and here’s the superior life
> > form: the Penguin. www.kernel.org.
> > The code is the documentation - the whole kernel is completely, 100%
> > documented. All the real life, working drivers are to your service as
> > examples.
> >
> > (Anybody not happy yet?! sure… never, ever can make everybody happy.)
> > Regards,
> > --PA
> >
>
> When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and giving
> them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left for
> the birds to eat.
>
> I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
> plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work
> for
> nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
> else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!
>
> Bill M.
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

Prokash Sinha wrote:

Hundereds of years ago, free pants, shirts, boots were given to Japanese
people and lot of other countries including the free ( the most I would
like to have ) alchol and cigarettes …

Guess what, none of them are free now …

You’re confusing “free like freedom” vs. “free like cheese in mouse
trap” (or, perhaps, “free like the last cigarette”)

–PA

My sincere hope is that “I’m totally confused …”.

But as I said, Noble cause not necessarily equates to Noble consequence.

There are so many factors one will have to consider ( connection,
networking, wraport etc) that would inevitably help the person(s) or their
associates/affiliates to build an empire out of freeness.

Anyway, I like the “free like freedom” dream concept of yours though. And
once again, I sincerly hope I’m wrong !!!

-pro

Prokash Sinha wrote:

> Hundereds of years ago, free pants, shirts, boots were given to Japanese
> people and lot of other countries including the free ( the most I would
> like to have ) alchol and cigarettes …
>
> Guess what, none of them are free now …

You’re confusing “free like freedom” vs. “free like cheese in mouse
trap” (or, perhaps, “free like the last cigarette”)

–PA


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

> On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build

his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.

It isn’t free if you have an understood quid pro quo going in. And these
two situations are not at all the same. Nobody else gets a free wall except
the dentist. The free software idiots are ruining an entire industry while
possibly doing themselves some personal good. Linus Torvalds has personally
brought my standard of living down cuz anyone who wants to can go get a nice
new real time embedded OS for free. That isn’t goodness. That model is
also driving the software industry to be a service industry which is a
disaster for something that should be a product industry. It ultimately
doesn’t do anyone any good. It’s certainly having a measurable impact on
the US economy which is surprising in its lack of analysis. Everyone hates
to pay for software, so software is an easy target. Too bad its so much
damn work. Any other professional doing free crap like this would be
hammered by his own industry through regulation or something. Not
us…no…hell give it all away.

Bill M.

“Tim Roberts” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Bill McKenzie wrote:
>> When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and giving
>> them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left for
>> the birds to eat.
>>
>> I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
>> plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their work
>> for
>> nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find something
>> else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!
>>
>
> On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build
> his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
> time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
> software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
> by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.
>
> –
> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
>

This whole idea sucks big time, Bill.

I wonder how some of us ( with a huge amount of experiance) think that
free software is the solution …

From outsourcing to all the way to free software … All of it sucks.

This does not fit the societal model we growup with and belive in…

It sucks, sucks, sucks … (put your limit here ).

-pro

> On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build
> his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
> time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
> software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
> by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.

It isn’t free if you have an understood quid pro quo going in. And these
two situations are not at all the same. Nobody else gets a free wall
except
the dentist. The free software idiots are ruining an entire industry
while
possibly doing themselves some personal good. Linus Torvalds has
personally
brought my standard of living down cuz anyone who wants to can go get a
nice
new real time embedded OS for free. That isn’t goodness. That model is
also driving the software industry to be a service industry which is a
disaster for something that should be a product industry. It ultimately
doesn’t do anyone any good. It’s certainly having a measurable impact on
the US economy which is surprising in its lack of analysis. Everyone
hates
to pay for software, so software is an easy target. Too bad its so much
damn work. Any other professional doing free crap like this would be
hammered by his own industry through regulation or something. Not
us…no…hell give it all away.

Bill M.

“Tim Roberts” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>> Bill McKenzie wrote:
>>> When I am emperor anyone writing serious software applications and
>>> giving
>>> them away for FREE will be shot on sight and their flesh will be left
>>> for
>>> the birds to eat.
>>>
>>> I can’t imagine, aside from humanitarian reasons, a doctor or lawyer or
>>> plumber or bricklayer or anyone in any other profession doing their
>>> work
>>> for
>>> nothing. These morons in the free software world need to find
>>> something
>>> else to fill their time. Soup kitchens always need help!
>>>
>>
>> On the other hand, there are any number of bricklayers who will build
>> his dentist a fence for free, based on the understanding that, the next
>> time he needs a crown, the dentist will return the favor. The free
>> software movement is more like that. In exchange for the free work done
>> by others, I offer my own expertise to the community.
>>
>> –
>> Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
>> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

Sorry, Bill. I’m not buying into your argument one inch or one iota.

You want to compete with free software? Create a MASSIVELY better value-add with your software for pay.

Does Microsoft have trouble competing against free software for the desktop? How many copies of Office get sold, and how many copies of OpenOffice are out there?

This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing: “They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.

I don’t like the “open software movement” at all. I think it sucks. But not because it’s FREE… rather, because it’s BADLY WRITTEN.

Peter
OSR

Peter,

I have to defend Bill here. The DDK/WDK is not free, there is no
charge for it. This may seem like a subtle distinction, but since the WDK
requires Windows, you could say that the cost of Windows is where the cost
of the WDK resides. This is an old model of software that has been there
since the 1950’s.

The software that OSR provides again is no charge, but it is certainly
not by the current use of the phrase “free software”. You retain ownership
and in most cases you provide binaries only (if you are giving away the
sources, please post the link!). In one sense this is like the hobbyist
software, of great use but not particularily something you can base a
business on.

There has been software with no charge for a long time, there were
operating systems and compilers and other tools before GNU or Linux that
were no charge, and yes many of them gave out source. But this software was
for research or to promote a language or technology.

What has changed is the GPL and the efforts to reproduce existing
OS’es and tools to directly compete with commercial products. Look at the
once strong UNIX market, the has been eliminated by Linux.

Almost 25 years ago, I heard Richard Stallman early in the FSF days
explain that his goal was to make a LAW that required all software to be
freely distributed including source. His idea on how to pay for this was
to have the government pay anyone who was a programmer (he then quoted
figures that were less than half what anyone in the audience made). Given
the numbers he had then it would be for a senior developer about
$50,000/year today,. I doubt you would be happy to turn over all OSR source,
and take the pay cut.

I do object to free software attempting to compete and destroy
commercial software as many of the leaders of this effort preach or predict.
I object to the fact that most software out of universities in this country
now have a GPL slapped on it, even though in many cases research grants from
the goverment or others paid for the work. At one time these products would
have been freely available for both further research and commercial
enterprise. It is ironic that Oracle which as a corporation lobbies hard
for Linux was based on code for a university research project, which today
would have a GPL on it and the company could never have created their
proprietary money maker.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Bill, Bill, Bill…
>
> The Windows DDK is free. You can download it for no cost. That’s a BAD
> thing??
>
> The utilities we write here at OSR are free… we’re morons for doing
> that??
>
> I write quite a bit of software for use by Amateur Radio Operators. I
> give it away, as a contribution to the overall community. I should be
> shot on site?
>
> Bill? What IS your point?
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
>

Peter, if you forgive my question - who pays you for the work you do? Have
you ever thought about switching over to doing something else and leave
programming just as a hobby?
I agree that Free Software is good - I myself learned a lot from it. And
at the same time I fully support the notion that cheaping down software
development is shortsighted to the extreme - programmers are not
carpenters and good programmers must invest lots of time to become good
and better - why should they charge less for their services? Why, do you
think doctors charge that much? Because they have invested years and
thousands in their education - the same with programmers. Have you tried
giving an advice to a doctor to provide his services for free and charge
only for “support” afterwards? Does it sound viable?

Gene

Sorry, Bill. I’m not buying into your argument one inch or one iota.

You want to compete with free software? Create a MASSIVELY better
value-add with your software for pay.

Does Microsoft have trouble competing against free software for the
desktop? How many copies of Office get sold, and how many copies of
OpenOffice are out there?

This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing:
“They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t
compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.

I don’t like the “open software movement” at all. I think it sucks. But
not because it’s FREE… rather, because it’s BADLY WRITTEN.

Peter
OSR


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

I know it is not toward me. So sorry for hijacking …

What you mean by the following para?

Everyone (mostly who wants cheaper way of doing things)are saying we don’t
have enough capable people to do the job, so we get it done from outside
and it is cheap … Those who think thatway are on drugs ( it is different
kind of drug: I need lots of dollars …).

The fact is that after currency conversion, lot of those country has huge
advantage over us. And that is the driving factor…

So you are right, most of us should shake our standard of life, compete
with outsourcing ( after adjusting the currency factor and sometime people
staying with their old folks - no rent, no car, nothing, just take a rid
on someone else ). The longer consequence of this is that in the US most
of the CS&CE classes would have hardly any enrollment. People are not that
stupid, they will move to other profession where outsourcing will not take
their bread away … Then we will have to start farmer’s (developer’s)
subsidi …
-pro

This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing:
“They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t
compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.

Peter
OSR


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

And finally, next time I hear a complain about US university, I will blow
big time … I will challenge to see who think with their right mind that
here is US we don’t have enough capable education or smart people …

I’m pretty pissed about it, hearing over and over again in the past in
this forum …

-pro

I know it is not toward me. So sorry for hijacking …

What you mean by the following para?

Everyone (mostly who wants cheaper way of doing things)are saying we don’t
have enough capable people to do the job, so we get it done from outside
and it is cheap … Those who think thatway are on drugs ( it is different
kind of drug: I need lots of dollars …).

The fact is that after currency conversion, lot of those country has huge
advantage over us. And that is the driving factor…

So you are right, most of us should shake our standard of life, compete
with outsourcing ( after adjusting the currency factor and sometime people
staying with their old folks - no rent, no car, nothing, just take a rid
on someone else ). The longer consequence of this is that in the US most
of the CS&CE classes would have hardly any enrollment. People are not that
stupid, they will move to other profession where outsourcing will not take
their bread away … Then we will have to start farmer’s (developer’s)
subsidi …
-pro

> This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing:
> “They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t
> compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.
>
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

Oh c’mon admit it you just like arguing with me. The fact is that the
DDK/WDK is not a free application in its own right. It is a set of tools
that hopefully further the sales of the for profit software that Microsoft
sells. It is only useful to that end. OSR’s tools and utilities don’t fall
in this argument either, at least I would argue, as they are not really
tools or utilities that would be viable on their own. Also, they are a
marketing tool that bring people to come pay your hefty rates for consulting
and such. Kudos on that.

The fact that most free software is badly written is a blessing or we could
all pack it in. Thank goodness Linux is horribly complex to setup and use
and there are so many different varieties of installs and desktops and such.

The simple fact is that nobody in their right mind would build a building
and give it away free (again save for humanitarian concerns and such). Or
worse yet, build a machine that builds buildings and let everyone use it for
free which is more analogous to what happens with Linux and other free
software. Getting a copy of software is essentially getting your own
version of the product. Can’t really do that in most other professions so
easily. If you could, there would be strict legistlation preventing it.

This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing:
“They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t
compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.

What you describe is a competition problem. What we are facing with free
software is not competition its flat out dumping. A group is putting
something out for MUCH less than the cost to make it. That is not the case
with foreign competitors in the consulting biz. Foreign software developers
are just able to produce cheaper. Free software is eating the cost in time
and materials which is not a viable business model.

Bill M.

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Sorry, Bill. I’m not buying into your argument one inch or one iota.
>
> You want to compete with free software? Create a MASSIVELY better
> value-add with your software for pay.
>
> Does Microsoft have trouble competing against free software for the
> desktop? How many copies of Office get sold, and how many copies of
> OpenOffice are out there?
>
> This is the same rant that software consultants use against outsourcing:
> “They too cheap! I can’t compete.” That may be correct, THEY can’t
> compete. That says something about THEM, not about outsourcing.
>
> I don’t like the “open software movement” at all. I think it sucks. But
> not because it’s FREE… rather, because it’s BADLY WRITTEN.
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
>

>I write quite a bit of software for use by Amateur Radio Operators. I give

it away, as a contribution to the overall community. I should be shot on
site?

I did quite carefully word my argument as pertaining only to “serious
software applications”. Is this software you give out of a commercial
quality and a product that would stand on its own and make a profit? If so,
then yes, when I become emperor remind me to shoot you :slight_smile:

Bill M.

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Bill, Bill, Bill…
>
> The Windows DDK is free. You can download it for no cost. That’s a BAD
> thing??
>
> The utilities we write here at OSR are free… we’re morons for doing
> that??
>
> I write quite a bit of software for use by Amateur Radio Operators. I
> give it away, as a contribution to the overall community. I should be
> shot on site?
>
> Bill? What IS your point?
>
> Peter
> OSR
>
>
>

xxxxx@osr.com wrote:

I don’t like the “open software movement” at all. I think it sucks. But not because it’s FREE… rather, because it’s BADLY WRITTEN.

It may be hard to compare. Everybody can see and criticize the “open”
source, but who has seen not free source.
Is it really written much better, or other factors that do the
difference. Marketing? support? project management?

> Sorry, Bill. I’m not buying into your argument one inch or one iota.

…especially taking into consideration the fact that he just cannot have any reasonable argument, for understandable reasons - it is obvious that he started this thread for the sole purpose of provoking emotional response…

You want to compete with free software? Create a MASSIVELY better value-add with your
software for pay.

Actually, this is EXACTLY what open source guys do - for example, free Fedora is sponsored
by Red Hat that offers RHEL (which is not free); Lynux (free open-source soft -realtime system) is sponsored by LYNX Corporation that produces LYNX (hard real-time system with access to the sources costing around 50K), etc,etc,etc. This is just a different business model that, ironically, is used by MSFT as well. For example, you can read Word docs with Word Reader (which is free), but if you want to be able to modify them you have to buy MSFT Word. The same story applies to the open source -although you can get limited version of a product for free, the full-blown one is going to cost you money///

Anton Bassov

No, and sorry …

I think it is a very reasonable thread. Nothing to provoke … C’mon …

The point here is “When you say free … it is free and unconditional”. That
is free like freedom.

No string attached …

Free samples would be more appropriate… That tells that there is a
business behind it that is coming along to have you as a customer…

As long as it is a Marketing ( different kind or not ), label it that way
… Don’t comeback and say it is free … Forexample, free as freedom is :
“The air, the sunshine… noone produced it as free”. Anything you produce
as free will eventually transform into business by someone if that has
potential, and you are stuck there …

-pro

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 4:34 PM, wrote:

> > Sorry, Bill. I’m not buying into your argument one inch or one iota.
>
>
> …especially taking into consideration the fact that he just cannot have
> any reasonable argument, for understandable reasons - it is obvious that he
> started this thread for the sole purpose of provoking emotional
> response…
>
> > You want to compete with free software? Create a MASSIVELY better
> value-add with your
> > software for pay.
>
> Actually, this is EXACTLY what open source guys do - for example, free
> Fedora is sponsored
> by Red Hat that offers RHEL (which is not free); Lynux (free open-source
> soft -realtime system) is sponsored by LYNX Corporation that produces LYNX
> (hard real-time system with access to the sources costing around 50K),
> etc,etc,etc. This is just a different business model that, ironically, is
> used by MSFT as well. For example, you can read Word docs with Word Reader
> (which is free), but if you want to be able to modify them you have to buy
> MSFT Word. The same story applies to the open source -although you can get
> limited version of a product for free, the full-blown one is going to cost
> you money///
>
>
> Anton Bassov
>
> —
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