Explorer won't copy named streams to my FS

Hi all,

I have an IFS which supports named streams. I have set FILE_NAMED_STREAMS in
the FileSystemAttributes and I am able to create streams at will using
CreateFile.

However, when I copy a file with named streams from another drive (such as
an NTFS volume) to my file system, the Explorer puts up the warning dialog
complaining that the named streams will be lost (like if you are copying to
FAT). Does anyone know why Explorer is doing this?
According to FileMon, Explorer is issuing a QUERY_VOLUME_INFORMATION for
FileFsAttributInformation to my FS when I attempt the copy. I think I am
returning the right stuff, but the Explorer still complains.

Any Ideas??

Thanks,

Don

In some cases, Explorer uses the hard-coded name of “NTFS”.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

----- Original Message -----
From: “Don”
Newsgroups: ntfsd
To: “Windows File Systems Devs Interest List”
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:12 AM
Subject: [ntfsd] Explorer won’t copy named streams to my FS

> Hi all,
>
> I have an IFS which supports named streams. I have set FILE_NAMED_STREAMS in
> the FileSystemAttributes and I am able to create streams at will using
> CreateFile.
>
> However, when I copy a file with named streams from another drive (such as
> an NTFS volume) to my file system, the Explorer puts up the warning dialog
> complaining that the named streams will be lost (like if you are copying to
> FAT). Does anyone know why Explorer is doing this?
> According to FileMon, Explorer is issuing a QUERY_VOLUME_INFORMATION for
> FileFsAttributInformation to my FS when I attempt the copy. I think I am
> returning the right stuff, but the Explorer still complains.
>
> Any Ideas??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Expect to encounter this kind of weird, broken behaviour in all manner of
third party user-mode products, virus filters, Microsoft product (notably
Exchange), and in the Windows OS itself. Trying to emulate or replace NTFS
as a filesystem is a weird twisted world that ultimately doesn’t lead to
satisfaction for you or your users.

It’s sad, really; there are APIs that should be enough for the application,
but some go further than QueryFsInformation and look at things like the file
object name. There is no way that we’ve found to convince applications that
you can replace NTFS, even if you provide all of its functionality.

…dave

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:13 PM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntfsd] Explorer won’t copy named streams to my FS

Hi all,

I have an IFS which supports named streams. I have set FILE_NAMED_STREAMS in
the FileSystemAttributes and I am able to create streams at will using
CreateFile.

However, when I copy a file with named streams from another drive (such as
an NTFS volume) to my file system, the Explorer puts up the warning dialog
complaining that the named streams will be lost (like if you are copying to
FAT). Does anyone know why Explorer is doing this?
According to FileMon, Explorer is issuing a QUERY_VOLUME_INFORMATION for
FileFsAttributInformation to my FS when I attempt the copy. I think I am
returning the right stuff, but the Explorer still complains.

Any Ideas??

Thanks,

Don


Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: xxxxx@exmsft.com To unsubscribe
send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Maxim and David,

Thanks for the information, although it is certainly not what I had hoped to
hear, it certainly agrees with what I am seeing. I guess I figured that if
anything would get it right, it would be the explorer (silly me).

Thanks for your help.

Don

“Don” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntfsd…
> Hi all,
>
> I have an IFS which supports named streams. I have set FILE_NAMED_STREAMS
> in the FileSystemAttributes and I am able to create streams at will using
> CreateFile.
>
> However, when I copy a file with named streams from another drive (such as
> an NTFS volume) to my file system, the Explorer puts up the warning dialog
> complaining that the named streams will be lost (like if you are copying
> to FAT). Does anyone know why Explorer is doing this?
> According to FileMon, Explorer is issuing a QUERY_VOLUME_INFORMATION for
> FileFsAttributInformation to my FS when I attempt the copy. I think I am
> returning the right stuff, but the Explorer still complains.
>
> Any Ideas??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don
>
>
>

> Thanks for the information, although it is certainly not what I had hoped

to hear, it certainly agrees with what I am seeing. I guess I figured that
if anything would get it right, it would be the explorer (silly me).

Neal Christiansen once promised that the shell team
will fix the hardcoded “ntfs”, see here:

http://www.osronline.com/lists_archive/ntfsd/thread4946.html
(look at the end of the long thread)

L.

I dug out what he said: Explorer is using the string NTFS. This has
been fixed for Longhorn, will be fixed for W2K3 SP1, and XP SP3. So it
should work now in W2K3 SP1. Since my understanding is that there won’t
be an XP SP3, I’m not sure what it would mean for XP.

It turns out that the comments indicate that MSDN examples also
demonstrate the technique of using the hard-coded name “NTFS”. It would
be ideal to get the samples in MSDN that show checking for the name to
STOP doing that as well and use the attribute bits instead.

The Exchange team should be similarly engaged and challenged to fix
their product as well - Dave Beaver’s comments are certainly directly
applicable.

While I’m sure that this is nothing more than a simple implementation
error, clearly developers at Microsoft would want to correct such
behavior because with recent judicial scrutiny this might appear to be
(to the non-technical) to be a deliberate effort to prevent third party
products working with Windows.

Regards,

Tony

Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Ladislav Zezula
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:16 AM
To: ntfsd redirect
Subject: Re: Re:[ntfsd] Explorer won’t copy named streams to my FS

Thanks for the information, although it is certainly not what I had
hoped
to hear, it certainly agrees with what I am seeing. I guess I figured
that
if anything would get it right, it would be the explorer (silly me).

Neal Christiansen once promised that the shell team
will fix the hardcoded “ntfs”, see here:

http://www.osronline.com/lists_archive/ntfsd/thread4946.html
(look at the end of the long thread)

L.


Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: xxxxx@osr.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

As an employee of a company that builds an NT file system (that is in no way
a competitor of NTFS, but which people want to use as an NTFS surrogate in
cluster environments), I’d love to see the whole FS information space get
changed to include an API that includes capability bits returned from a
capabilities/getfsinfo API; one bit says I support streams, one says I
support the change journal, one says I support Eas, one says I support
objects and the WinFS query interfaces, one says … you get the idea.

With an API like this, and a clear definition of what it means to turn on
the capability bit, application developers could lose their dependence upon
the name of the FS and just look at making sure that the functionality they
want to do something is available. One could also write apps that degrade
gracefully when, say, the change journal isn’t available.

There is little or no business incentive for Microsoft to create such an API
(if you can make a business case for it that makes sense from Microsoft’s
standpoint, I’d love to hear it), so I doubt we’ll see such an API in the
future. It would have been a great addition to the whole WinFS space if
were going to happen (where there is lots more functionality to be found
that most file systems won’t support), and AFAIK it’s nowhere to be found.

…dave (who has some modicom of understanding of the way MSFT works
internally…)

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tony Mason
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:30 AM
To: Windows File Systems Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: Re:[ntfsd] Explorer won’t copy named streams to my FS

I dug out what he said: Explorer is using the string NTFS. This has been
fixed for Longhorn, will be fixed for W2K3 SP1, and XP SP3. So it should
work now in W2K3 SP1. Since my understanding is that there won’t be an XP
SP3, I’m not sure what it would mean for XP.

It turns out that the comments indicate that MSDN examples also demonstrate
the technique of using the hard-coded name “NTFS”. It would be ideal to get
the samples in MSDN that show checking for the name to STOP doing that as
well and use the attribute bits instead.

The Exchange team should be similarly engaged and challenged to fix their
product as well - Dave Beaver’s comments are certainly directly applicable.

While I’m sure that this is nothing more than a simple implementation error,
clearly developers at Microsoft would want to correct such behavior because
with recent judicial scrutiny this might appear to be (to the non-technical)
to be a deliberate effort to prevent third party products working with
Windows.

Regards,

Tony

Tony Mason
Consulting Partner
OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
http://www.osr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Ladislav Zezula
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:16 AM
To: ntfsd redirect
Subject: Re: Re:[ntfsd] Explorer won’t copy named streams to my FS

Thanks for the information, although it is certainly not what I had
hoped
to hear, it certainly agrees with what I am seeing. I guess I figured
that
if anything would get it right, it would be the explorer (silly me).

Neal Christiansen once promised that the shell team will fix the hardcoded
“ntfs”, see here:

http://www.osronline.com/lists_archive/ntfsd/thread4946.html
(look at the end of the long thread)

L.


Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: xxxxx@osr.com To unsubscribe send
a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com


Questions? First check the IFS FAQ at
https://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=17

You are currently subscribed to ntfsd as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: ‘’
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com