Hi,
I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive driver
(disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is there
an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking? 2) If a check fails, what
happens? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder give any
error message?
My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to put
it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though
during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing without
any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
wonder if some files may be corrupted.
I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of every
file and then compare that to the files I copied off. Still, I’m curious
what integrity checking may be going on in the background. In the past I’ve
seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a disk
drive.
-Tom
From: “Tom G”
> My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to put
> it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
> It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though
> during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
> let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
> then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing
> without
> any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
> wonder if some files may be corrupted.
You didn’t put the mouse into the freezer, too, did you? I don’t think that
was part of the suggested remediation.
Walter Oney
Consulting and Training
www.oneysoft.com
The storage stack depends on the physical disk’s firmware to detect
data corruption. There is no additional checking provided by the OS
software.
Mark Roddy
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Tom G wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive driver
> (disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
>
> If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is there
> an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking?? 2) If a check fails, what
> happens?? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder give any
> error message?
>
> My Seagate USB drive is dieing.? I lucked out with a recommendation to put
> it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
> It worked and I was able to copy all my files off.? I did notice though
> during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
> let me move the mouse cursor.? This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
> then things would continue.? The copy operation wound up completing without
> any error indication.? Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
> wonder if some files may be corrupted.
>
> I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of every
> file and then compare that to the files I copied off.? Still, I’m curious
> what integrity checking may be going on in the background.? In the past I’ve
> seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a disk
> drive.
>
> -Tom
> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
> other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the
> List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Modern disks do their own integrity checking. The disk driver does none. The freezing may have been the drive desperately attempting to recover a corrupted section of disk (which blocks other I/O like paging I/O, which can block a thread manipulating the GUI, which can freeze your mouse).
The CRC of the files you copied off probably matches the CRC of the files on the disk you think is dying since they came from the same source. So I personally wouldn?t bother writing that script.
-p
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tom G
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:07 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Disk drive integrity checking and possible error response
Hi,
I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive driver (disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is there an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking? 2) If a check fails, what happens? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder give any error message?
My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to put it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high. It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing without any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I wonder if some files may be corrupted.
I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of every file and then compare that to the files I copied off. Still, I’m curious what integrity checking may be going on in the background. In the past I’ve seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a disk drive.
-Tom
— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>though during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even let me move the
mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and then things would continue.
The usual thing for dying disks, I think this is some retries automatically executed by the disk’s firmware, and, if the controller wants to send a command during these retries, it is stalled.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
Sorry for the delayed response.
No I didn’t put the mouse in the freezer. I’ll give that a try and see if
it fixes it.
-Tom
On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Walter Oney wrote:
> From: “Tom G”
>
>> My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to put
>> it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
>> It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though
>> during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
>> let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
>> then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing
>> without
>> any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
>> wonder if some files may be corrupted.
>>
>
> You didn’t put the mouse into the freezer, too, did you? I don’t think that
> was part of the suggested remediation.
>
> Walter Oney
> Consulting and Training
> www.oneysoft.com
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
Sorry for the delayed response.
I had wondered if this was the case and figured it likely was. Do you know
if the firmware / protocol has a mechanism to let the OS driver know if an
integrity check failed? It’s a USB 2.0 interface to the drive. Inside the
enclosure it’s actually a regular SATA drive.
Thanks,
Tom
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Mark Roddy wrote:
> The storage stack depends on the physical disk’s firmware to detect
> data corruption. There is no additional checking provided by the OS
> software.
>
> Mark Roddy
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Tom G wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive
> driver
> > (disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
> >
> > If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is
> there
> > an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking? 2) If a check fails,
> what
> > happens? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder give
> any
> > error message?
> >
> > My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to
> put
> > it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8"
> high.
> > It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though
> > during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not
> even
> > let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
> > then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing
> without
> > any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
> > wonder if some files may be corrupted.
> >
> > I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of
> every
> > file and then compare that to the files I copied off. Still, I’m curious
> > what integrity checking may be going on in the background. In the past
> I’ve
> > seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a
> disk
> > drive.
> >
> > -Tom
> > — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
> > other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit
> the
> > List Server section of OSR Online at
> > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
That sounds reasonable and like it’s likely what was happening regarding the
freezing.
I don’t really want to write that script anyway. I’m hoping on my next
reply to Seagate support they can give me some good information.
-Tom
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Peter Wieland <
xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com> wrote:
Modern disks do their own integrity checking. The disk driver does
none. The freezing may have been the drive desperately attempting to
recover a corrupted section of disk (which blocks other I/O like paging I/O,
which can block a thread manipulating the GUI, which can freeze your mouse).
The CRC of the files you copied off probably matches the CRC of the files
on the disk you think is dying since they came from the same source. So I
personally wouldn?t bother writing that script.
-p
*From:* xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom G
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:07 PM
*To:* Windows System Software Devs Interest List
*Subject:* [ntdev] Disk drive integrity checking and possible error
response
Hi,
I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive driver
(disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is
there an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking? 2) If a check fails,
what happens? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder
give any error message?
My Seagate USB drive is dieing. I lucked out with a recommendation to put
it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
It worked and I was able to copy all my files off. I did notice though
during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
let me move the mouse cursor. This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
then things would continue. The copy operation wound up completing without
any error indication. Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
wonder if some files may be corrupted.
I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of every
file and then compare that to the files I copied off. Still, I’m curious
what integrity checking may be going on in the background. In the past I’ve
seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a disk
drive.
-Tom
— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit
the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
In SCSI terminology the disk may indicate an 03 11 media sense error
code indicating an uncorrectable media read error. The system event
log may also contain a related event.
On Friday, May 15, 2009, Tom G wrote:
> Sorry for the delayed response.
>
> I had wondered if this was the case and figured it likely was.? Do you know if the firmware / protocol has a mechanism to let the OS driver know if an integrity check failed?? It’s a USB 2.0 interface to the drive.? Inside the enclosure it’s actually a regular SATA drive.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Mark Roddy wrote:
>
> The storage stack depends on the physical disk’s firmware to detect
> data corruption. There is no additional checking provided by the OS
> software.
>
> Mark Roddy
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Tom G wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I’m curious if anyone is familiar with the Windows Vista disk drive driver
>> (disk.sys?) and knows if it does data integrity checking during reads.
>>
>> If it does, my next questions are: 1) Is it done on most drives and is there
>> an easy way I can see if mine is doing checking?? 2) If a check fails, what
>> happens?? Would a Windows Explorer copy operation on a large folder give any
>> error message?
>>
>> My Seagate USB drive is dieing.? I lucked out with a recommendation to put
>> it in the freezer for 2 hours and then by drop it on a table from 8" high.
>> It worked and I was able to copy all my files off.? I did notice though
>> during a few parts of the ~200GB copy that my PC would freeze and not even
>> let me move the mouse cursor.? This would last maybe 20 seconds or so and
>> then things would continue.? The copy operation wound up completing without
>> any error indication.? Still, especially because of the cursor freezes, I
>> wonder if some files may be corrupted.
>>
>> I guess I can reconnect the drive and run a script to log the CRC of every
>> file and then compare that to the files I copied off.? Still, I’m curious
>> what integrity checking may be going on in the background.? In the past I’ve
>> seen CRC errors on copies with scratched CD’s/DVD’s, but never with a disk
>> drive.
>>
>> -Tom
>> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
>> other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the
>> List Server section of OSR Online at
>> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
–
Mark Roddy
>a mechanism to let the OS driver know if an integrity check failed?
The disk’s firmware just fails the read or write operation with proper error code.
–
Maxim S. Shatskih
Windows DDK MVP
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com