> -----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:bounce-277295-
xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@hypervista-tech.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:51 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] debuggee not connected
Hi Peter - I’m intrigued by your comment :
“I have noticed that the reliability of my 1394 debugger is much better
since I put a powered 1394 hub in between my machines instead of relying
on the built-in hubs. Even though I tend to only have one test machine
these days.”
I’ve just started 1394 kernel debugging myself and just got it working
today. When you say powered hub, do you mean the $20 - $40 hubs that have
a couple of USB ports and a couple of 1394 ports?
[PCAUSA] I think Belkin sells a multi-port powered hub for 1394.
I guess I am fortunate that most of my test machines have motherboard serial
and 1394 support. From what I understand, serial ports are going to become a
thing of the past before too long.
Although I can debug with either 1394 or serial, I tend to agree with Mark
that serial will do just fine (if you have it…).
The problem that I have with 1394 is that my host machine is used for a lot
of things, and using 1394 seems to interfere with some of them. For example,
if you (well, me anyway…) have a 1394 debugging session running the you
can’t concurrently use an external 1394 drive for backup. Behavior on my
machine at least is bizarre when I try to use 1394 drive after a debugging
session. And, it’s easy to forget that the 1394 debugger driver is running
when you try to use the external drive.
In addition, the WinDbg setup for 1394 says to disable the 1394 host
controller on the target machine. This is OK for ordinary debugging, but
when you run HCT for WHQL tests HCT will notice the banged-out 1394
controller and complain. You can probably explain this to WHQL when you
submit test results, but is you use serial instead you have one less hassle
to deal with for WHQL. I don’t know it DTM makes the same complaint.
Thomas F. Divine
I appreciate the comments of those who say serial works fine. I felt
somewhat forced to 1394 because my test machine motherboard didn’t include
an on-board serial port so I purchased a serial card. I could never it
get it to connect. I think it’s because the driver for that serial card
doesn’t load soon enough for the debugger to attach, but I’m not sure.
After several days of trying to get the serial debug to work, I moved to
1394 and making some progress.
Does anyone here know if/how I can get my serial card to work in kernel
debug?
Thanks!
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
> While 1394 seems like a good idea, many of us here have concluded that it
is not always reliable and that a simple serial port connection is good
enough for most debugging operations.
I agree that 1394 can be finicky, and finding a stable 1394 card is a bit of
work. On the other hand, I periodically write crash dumps across the 1394
connection from windbg. The few times I’ve tried this with a serial port
connection, my patience ran out before the crash dump ever finished. To dump
a gigabyte of memory across a serial connection takes at least 24 hours.
If you’re working on a boot load storage driver, there may not be any crash
dumps unless you write them over the debugger connection.
Another thing that’s become pretty essential for debugging has been an EMS
console connection. Since I have multiple variations of the OS on a machine,
and need to select which one to boot, and my target machines are off in the
computer lab (or I’m working from my home 40 miles away), BIOS console
redirection and EMS are pretty essential. There also are some remote
management kvm’s that essentially allow you do have a keyboard/mouse/display
remotely, at boot time. A nice target system would just have this built into
the motherboard and use an Ethernet port for remote access.
A BIG problem I have right now with Longhorn development is the new boot
loader seems to no longer work with BIOS console redirection. I can control
the BIOS through the serial port, and can interact with the EMS services and
OS command prompt after the OS is up (REAL handy when something bad happens
with IP routing or the NIC used for remote desktop), but I can’t select
between Longhorn and W2k3 at boot time. Dear Microsoft, PLEASE fix the boot
loader console redirection. I’ve tried flashing the latest BIOS and
explicitly setting the correct port using bcdedit, with no success. Since
the OS EMS service works, I have to believe the ACPI table is correct (or
the right EMS parameters are getting passed to the OS from the loader). ONLY
the new boot loader can’t do serial console redirection, the W2k3 boot
loader worked perfectly.
The one I have is lump of cloudy white plastic with 4 1394 ports and a power cord. I’m not sure who made it - it came from our admin’s storeroom.
I have had problems in the past where the 1394 connection just wouldn’t pickup. Of course many of those are using internal versions of the OS so I’m usually working with something new and a bit raw in the 1394 debugger drivers. But having the hub in between the two machines, for whatever reason, seems to increase my chances of getting it to work.
It may just be that the gremlins get stuck in the hub and can’t move from machine to machine through the 1394 cable. We all know gremlins have trouble climbing the slick plastic walls on the insides of those hubs.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@hypervista-tech.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:52 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] debuggee not connected
Hi Peter - I’m intrigued by your comment :
“I have noticed that the reliability of my 1394 debugger is much better
since I put a powered 1394 hub in between my machines instead of relying
on the built-in hubs. Even though I tend to only have one test machine
these days.”
I’ve just started 1394 kernel debugging myself and just got it working today. When you say powered hub, do you mean the $20 - $40 hubs that have a couple of USB ports and a couple of 1394 ports?
I appreciate the comments of those who say serial works fine. I felt somewhat forced to 1394 because my test machine motherboard didn’t include an on-board serial port so I purchased a serial card. I could never it get it to connect. I think it’s because the driver for that serial card doesn’t load soon enough for the debugger to attach, but I’m not sure. After several days of trying to get the serial debug to work, I moved to 1394 and making some progress.
Does anyone here know if/how I can get my serial card to work in kernel debug?
Thanks!
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
I use a Belkin 1394a hub for three Seagate external hard drives and I know
someone who uses it for Windbg. It is a little 2.75" x 1.75" x 0.75" white
block with three ports on each end with one end having the power support
connection.
“Peter Wieland” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
The one I have is lump of cloudy white plastic with 4 1394 ports and a power
cord. I’m not sure who made it - it came from our admin’s storeroom.
I have had problems in the past where the 1394 connection just wouldn’t
pickup. Of course many of those are using internal versions of the OS so
I’m usually working with something new and a bit raw in the 1394 debugger
drivers. But having the hub in between the two machines, for whatever
reason, seems to increase my chances of getting it to work.
It may just be that the gremlins get stuck in the hub and can’t move from
machine to machine through the 1394 cable. We all know gremlins have
trouble climbing the slick plastic walls on the insides of those hubs.
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@hypervista-tech.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:52 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] debuggee not connected
Hi Peter - I’m intrigued by your comment :
“I have noticed that the reliability of my 1394 debugger is much better
since I put a powered 1394 hub in between my machines instead of relying
on the built-in hubs. Even though I tend to only have one test machine
these days.”
I’ve just started 1394 kernel debugging myself and just got it working
today. When you say powered hub, do you mean the $20 - $40 hubs that have a
couple of USB ports and a couple of 1394 ports?
I appreciate the comments of those who say serial works fine. I felt
somewhat forced to 1394 because my test machine motherboard didn’t include
an on-board serial port so I purchased a serial card. I could never it get
it to connect. I think it’s because the driver for that serial card doesn’t
load soon enough for the debugger to attach, but I’m not sure. After
several days of trying to get the serial debug to work, I moved to 1394 and
making some progress.
Does anyone here know if/how I can get my serial card to work in kernel
debug?
Thanks!
—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Siig 1394 cards seems to be my best experience. Even though those mother
boards does not quite handle USB ports ( not all the usb ports works), and
some of those even don’t have PXE bios updates ( kind of old mother boards
), siig 1394 seems to work fine with windbg. Though never tried to use any
backup or anything else. Just used for windbg.
-pro
I use a Belkin 1394a hub for three Seagate external hard drives and I know
someone who uses it for Windbg. It is a little 2.75" x 1.75" x 0.75"
white
block with three ports on each end with one end having the power support
connection.
“Peter Wieland” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> The one I have is lump of cloudy white plastic with 4 1394 ports and a
> power
> cord. I’m not sure who made it - it came from our admin’s storeroom.
>
> I have had problems in the past where the 1394 connection just wouldn’t
> pickup. Of course many of those are using internal versions of the OS so
> I’m usually working with something new and a bit raw in the 1394 debugger
> drivers. But having the hub in between the two machines, for whatever
> reason, seems to increase my chances of getting it to work.
>
> It may just be that the gremlins get stuck in the hub and can’t move from
> machine to machine through the 1394 cable. We all know gremlins have
> trouble climbing the slick plastic walls on the insides of those hubs.
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
> xxxxx@hypervista-tech.com
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:52 PM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: RE:[ntdev] debuggee not connected
>
> Hi Peter - I’m intrigued by your comment :
> “I have noticed that the reliability of my 1394 debugger is much better
> since I put a powered 1394 hub in between my machines instead of relying
> on the built-in hubs. Even though I tend to only have one test machine
> these days.”
> I’ve just started 1394 kernel debugging myself and just got it working
> today. When you say powered hub, do you mean the $20 - $40 hubs that have
> a
> couple of USB ports and a couple of 1394 ports?
> I appreciate the comments of those who say serial works fine. I felt
> somewhat forced to 1394 because my test machine motherboard didn’t include
> an on-board serial port so I purchased a serial card. I could never it
> get
> it to connect. I think it’s because the driver for that serial card
> doesn’t
> load soon enough for the debugger to attach, but I’m not sure. After
> several days of trying to get the serial debug to work, I moved to 1394
> and
> making some progress.
> Does anyone here know if/how I can get my serial card to work in kernel
> debug?
> Thanks!
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>