Certification for windows device driver developers

Hi Guys,

These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.

Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?

Regards,
Vinay.

Yes,its Quiet True of Vinay…
As this being a double Recession so OSR Or Microsoft must bring some sort
of certification
for DEVICE DRIVER DEVELOPMENT
This will also give NewBies to prove themselves in this otherwise
difficult to enter Field.
I have found that Companies Generally dont call boys for interviews if they
do not hold any experience
in this field , no matter how Good they are in this field.

Please do pour in your comments.

Thanks And Regards,
Aashish Kaushik
TEL : 0120-4777881(Extn. 2390)
E-MAIL:xxxxx@jil.co.in

If there is righteosuness in the heart,  
there is beauty in character and if there  
is beauty in character there will be harmony  
in the home.  
 ---- Sai Baba  

xxxxx@wip
ro.com To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent by:
xxxxx@lis cc:
ts.osr.com Subject: [ntdev] Certification for windows
device driver developers

23-04-2002 01:14 AM
Please respond to “NT
Developers Interest
List”

Hi Guys,

These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.

Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?

Regards,
Vinay.


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%

How could you be good without experience? I think the best test is what you
have done.

But, I would like to come up with a good test for managers of driver
developers and have a law passed that each and every one of those managers
must pass the test. However, that would ensure a world-wide economic
collapse :slight_smile:


Bill McKenzie

wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
>
> Yes,its Quiet True of Vinay…
> As this being a double Recession so OSR Or Microsoft must bring some sort
> of certification
> for DEVICE DRIVER DEVELOPMENT
> This will also give NewBies to prove themselves in this otherwise
> difficult to enter Field.
> I have found that Companies Generally dont call boys for interviews if
they
> do not hold any experience
> in this field , no matter how Good they are in this field.
>
> Please do pour in your comments.
>
> Thanks And Regards,
> Aashish Kaushik
> TEL : 0120-4777881(Extn. 2390)
> E-MAIL:xxxxx@jil.co.in
>
>
> If there is righteosuness in the heart,
> there is beauty in character and if there
> is beauty in character there will be harmony
> in the home.
> ---- Sai Baba
>

>
>
>
>
> xxxxx@wip
> ro.com To: “NT Developers
Interest List”
> Sent by:
> xxxxx@lis cc:
> ts.osr.com Subject: [ntdev]
Certification for windows
> device driver developers
>
> 23-04-2002 01:14 AM
> Please respond to “NT
> Developers Interest
> List”
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
>
> Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
> there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
>
> Regards,
> Vinay.
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>
>
>
>
>
>

OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM Training.
Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in general…well
MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.
Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss should spring for some
seminars.
I am sure that some third party companies have testing available. I will
forward
the names of the companies shortly.

Asher

Hi Guys,

These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.

Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?

Regards,
Vinay.


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%

http://www.azius.com/winhec2002/course_03.html
Mr Oneys Class
http://www.traininghott.com/Courses/Writing-Windows-Device-Driver-Hands-On-T
raining-Course-Class-Seminar-Win32-SDK.htm

Another class.

Maybe you should ask your boss to take a management class to see if he can
pick his nose with style and grace.

Asher.
----- Original Message -----
From: “Asher Hoodin”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:46 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for windows device driver developers

> OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM Training.
> Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in
general…well
> MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.
> Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss should spring for some
> seminars.
> I am sure that some third party companies have testing available. I will
> forward
> the names of the companies shortly.
>
> Asher
>
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> > tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
> >
> > Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland.
If
> > there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vinay.
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>

Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD idea. What it will turn into
is that bosses around will start requiring the certification and
driver developers will have to pay money to the certifying authority
maybe even including travelling there, for who would certify you by
e-mail or phone? And your current boss will not pay for this, for he
already knows your abilities. You will have to pay yourself, to get
a certificate before you find another job. So, this will just transfer
money from your pocket to the certifier, and won’t make you any better
developer. And they still won’t hire people without experience :slight_smile:

What the original poster’s boss is looking for is likely to find
pretexts to be able to lay off somebody if a need arises. The only
cure for this is to spend more time learning and demonstrating to
him that you can to a good job. The boss needs reliable drivers in
predictable time. If you can give him this, he will love you.
Otherwise no certification will help.

— Asher Hoodin wrote:
> OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM Training.
> Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in general…well
> MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.
> Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss should spring for some
> seminars.
> I am sure that some third party companies have testing available. I will
> forward
> the names of the companies shortly.
>
> Asher
>
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> > tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
> >
> > Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
> > there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vinay.
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>
>
>
> —
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

The root problem is MOST managers are too friggin lazy or incompetent to
know or to figure out what their people do, and thus who is good at it and
who is not. That is how big companies get into these wonderful ‘metrics’
games and such. The poor engineer who is skilled better get himself on
something the boss likes and is visible as time won’t be an option to tell
if he is good or not. This is also how stupid projects get traction. Its a
wonderful Dilbert-like principle that seems to play out time and time again
no matter how many dot gones there seem to be. You would think someone
would figure it out, at least the investors, then again maybe they are.


Bill McKenzie

“Ntdev Reader” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD idea. What it will turn into
> is that bosses around will start requiring the certification and
> driver developers will have to pay money to the certifying authority
> maybe even including travelling there, for who would certify you by
> e-mail or phone? And your current boss will not pay for this, for he
> already knows your abilities. You will have to pay yourself, to get
> a certificate before you find another job. So, this will just transfer
> money from your pocket to the certifier, and won’t make you any better
> developer. And they still won’t hire people without experience :slight_smile:
>
> What the original poster’s boss is looking for is likely to find
> pretexts to be able to lay off somebody if a need arises. The only
> cure for this is to spend more time learning and demonstrating to
> him that you can to a good job. The boss needs reliable drivers in
> predictable time. If you can give him this, he will love you.
> Otherwise no certification will help.
>
> — Asher Hoodin wrote:
> > OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM Training.
> > Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in
general…well
> > MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.
> > Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss should spring for
some
> > seminars.
> > I am sure that some third party companies have testing available. I
will
> > forward
> > the names of the companies shortly.
> >
> > Asher
> >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > >
> > > These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> > > tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
> > >
> > > Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland.
If
> > > there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Vinay.
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@yahoo.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
>

OSR cannot certify this, only MS can, and IIRC they do not do this.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Certification for windows device driver developers

> Hi Guys,
>
> These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
>
> Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland. If
> there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
>
> Regards,
> Vinay.
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>

Bill,

The same rule of thumb for lawyers is used managers of device driver
development programs: hang’m all!

Vinay,

Tell your management there is no “Certification program”. There are however
several seminars taught by Oney, OSR, Hanrahan, and Caitlin that are HIGHLY
recommended. I’ve taken the ones offered by Hanrahan and Caitlin, but I have
also dealt with all of the presenters here on the groups. Who is better? The
one that is closest and most convient for you.


Gary G. Little
xxxxx@broadstor.com
xxxxx@inland.net

“Bill McKenzie” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
> How could you be good without experience? I think the best test is what
you
> have done.
>
> But, I would like to come up with a good test for managers of driver
> developers and have a law passed that each and every one of those managers
> must pass the test. However, that would ensure a world-wide economic
> collapse :slight_smile:
>
> –
> Bill McKenzie
>
>
>
> wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> >
> >
> > Yes,its Quiet True of Vinay…
> > As this being a double Recession so OSR Or Microsoft must bring some
sort
> > of certification
> > for DEVICE DRIVER DEVELOPMENT
> > This will also give NewBies to prove themselves in this otherwise
> > difficult to enter Field.
> > I have found that Companies Generally dont call boys for interviews if
> they
> > do not hold any experience
> > in this field , no matter how Good they are in this field.
> >
> > Please do pour in your comments.
> >
> > Thanks And Regards,
> > Aashish Kaushik
> > TEL : 0120-4777881(Extn. 2390)
> > E-MAIL:xxxxx@jil.co.in
> >
> >
> > If there is righteosuness in the heart,
> > there is beauty in character and if there
> > is beauty in character there will be harmony
> > in the home.
> > ---- Sai Baba
> >

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > xxxxx@wip
> > ro.com To: “NT Developers
> Interest List”
> > Sent by:
> > xxxxx@lis cc:
> > ts.osr.com Subject: [ntdev]
> Certification for windows
> > device driver
developers
> >
> > 23-04-2002 01:14 AM
> > Please respond to “NT
> > Developers Interest
> > List”
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> > tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
> >
> > Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland.
If
> > there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vinay.
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

> Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD idea. What it will turn into

is that bosses around will start requiring the certification and
driver developers will have to pay money to the certifying authority
maybe even including travelling there, for who would certify you by
e-mail or phone?

MS has certification centers worldwide (in economically average countries this can require a travel to the capital or one of the
largest cities), they can just add yet another exam course in them.
And only MS can certify Windows kmode developers.

And your current boss will not pay for this, for he
already knows your abilities.

This is good for resumes and not the current boss :slight_smile:

The only thing when the current boss can require this is - sometimes having a certified engineers (MCSE mainly) is a mandatory
condition for some “Microsoft’s partner” status -> better relations with local Microsoft -> chances to re-use of MS’s marketing
machine (very powerful worldwide) for their own business to some degree. :slight_smile:

a certificate before you find another job. So, this will just transfer
money from your pocket to the certifier

Not so much money, at least for MCSE (I passed that in 95, though had no time to confirm it later).

Max

> Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in general…well

MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.

Why? MCSE is a sysadmin’s (not developer’s) certificate, and seems to be rather respected.

Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD.

This one is mainly on MFC, and is not so respected as MCSE.

Max

Uhhh, maybe.

Does certification prevent bad doctors from practicing? No.
(Joke: What do you call a doctor who graduated at the bottom
of his class? “Doctor”)

Does certification prevent bad accountants from practicing? No.
Ask the poor folks who believed Authur Anderson’s CPAs knew what
they were saying about Enron’s books.

Does certification prevent bad lawyers from practicing? No.
(Ooops, bad rhetorical question!)

In answer, certification does not PROVE that the person who passed
the certification is an able practitioner of the certified art. It
only says he or she passed the test and paid the fees. We don’t
know HOW he or she passed the test, or what is remembered from
when it was taken.

We certainly DON’T know how they will perform on the next task given
to them.

(I wonder how I’ll be able to back down from THIS position! :wink:

Stu Bell

-----Original Message-----
From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]

You feel the same way about certification of other
professionals, such as, for example, doctors?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ntdev Reader [mailto:xxxxx@yahoo.com]
>
> Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD idea. …

Actually, it is interesting that last week at WinHEC Microsoft
indicated they did not want to go the certification route. How
do you determine with multiple choice questions if someone
is competent? Does a guy writing NDIS drivers, need to know
SCSI just to get certified etc?

I remember the various proposals in the past for certification of
software engineers. ACM had an assessment in the mid-80’s
the had lots of questions on tape and disk blocking factors,
obviously from the mainframe contingent, fortunately the
effort died. That is one of the problems with certification programs
a good driver certification program takes time, i.e. they might just
start certifying Win2k people now, of course since .NET wants
security changes, better locking, etc this might not be what is
wanted anymore.

Don Burn
Windows NT/2000/XP Filesystem and Device Driver Consulting

>>>Yeah, certification is really a VERY BAD idea. What it will turn into
is that bosses around will start requiring the certification and
driver developers will have to pay money to the certifying authority

****

Wrong Again Buddy !!! , Certification Just helps you stand out from the
herd and mind you Microsofts Certifications
are not that costly and are easily afforadable by everybody.

>>>maybe even including travelling there, for who would certify you by
e-mail or phone?
***
Yeah you dont have to travel as long as you are not living in deepest of
jungles of AFRICA
coz. Microsoft generally have centres in all the major cities of the world
(and even smaller cities too …e.g INDIA
where cities have Microsofts Centes but no Elementry School…See the
contrast)

>>> The boss needs reliable drivers in
predictable time. If you can give him this, he will love you.
Otherwise no certification will help

****
True that boss needs work , but Certification just stops your boss from
casting aspersions on you
in case you fail for any valid or invalid reason

Ntdev Reader
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent by:
xxxxx@lis cc:
ts.osr.com Subject: [ntdev] Re: Certification for
windows device driver developers

23-04-2002 11:29 AM
Please respond to “NT
Developers Interest
List”

— Asher Hoodin wrote:
> OSR already has seminars. Other companies have WDM Training.
> Bother to look at the OSR web sight. As for certification in
general…well
> MCSE failed miserably at making an inexperienced workforce any good.
> Nobody I have ever met is an MCSD. Maybe your boss should spring for
some
> seminars.
> I am sure that some third party companies have testing available. I will
> forward
> the names of the companies shortly.
>
> Asher
>
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > These not being the best of times, my Boss wants me take some sort of
> > tests to quantify my proficiency in Windows device driver development.
> >
> > Does any one of you know of good certifying authorities in driverland.
If
> > there are no one, does OSR plan to certify?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vinay.
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@aam-ch.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
>
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@yahoo.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/


You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@jil.co.in
To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%

>

Does certification prevent bad doctors from practicing? No.

Sure, certification does not prove qualification, however lack of
certification, where the certification process is fair and reasonable,
does indicate something about the quality of the professional. Would you
want your surgeon to not be board certified? Don’t care if she is or
isn’t? Cripes, I want my tax preparer to have some sort of
certification, why shouldn’t I want the people working on my computer
infrastructure to also be professional?

Can’t disagree with that and in fact I have no problem with someone testing
me. If I am caught short in an area, I sure rather know about it than
continue in ignorance. It would also probably lead to a pretty healthy
proliferation of information. Can’t wait to see that first MSDC (MS Driver
Certification ??) book or whatever :slight_smile:


Bill McKenzie

“Mark Roddy” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
>
>
> >
> > Does certification prevent bad doctors from practicing? No.
>
> Sure, certification does not prove qualification, however lack of
> certification, where the certification process is fair and reasonable,
> does indicate something about the quality of the professional. Would you
> want your surgeon to not be board certified? Don’t care if she is or
> isn’t? Cripes, I want my tax preparer to have some sort of
> certification, why shouldn’t I want the people working on my computer
> infrastructure to also be professional?
>
>
>

I personally think certification is essential.
Reasons:

  1. Differenciation:
    Cetification will help separate the men from the boys.
  2. Marketing statistic for the sales guys:
    ‘We have a crack team of experinced networking developers certified
    at the highest level by Microsoft. This reduces the time to market for
    your product.’ Sounds good.
  3. Brand building:
    Build your brand in the organisation. Getting certification will
    re-inforce the confidence that your manager has in your abilities. As that
    will give her the satisfaction of knowing that she was right about your
    abilities! In a team effort, it is very easy for the managers to overlook
    the contribution of the not so ‘critical’ members. In this case the
    manager will be forced to have a second look at you.
    Then ofcourse there will be a title after your name …‘There comes the A
    grade MSDC device driver guy. Make way.’
  4. Setting minimum competency requirement for the job:
    As some one pointed out, very few managers are competent enough to
    judge the level and quality of expertise a prospect possesses.
    Certification can prevent them from making mistakes. Yes, the assumption
    here is that the tests are “fair and reasonable”.
  5. Systematic learning oppurtunity:
    A majority of the driver developers that I know had an adhoc way of
    beginnng to learn the art of writing driver software. A lot of them do not
    know why a certain thing is done the way it is done. There are a lot of
    gray areas even for experienced developers. I think this can be changed
    when large quantities of high quality literature is produced for ‘passing’
    these tests.
  6. A general increase in quality of the drivers produced:
    I know this is arguable, but when a majority of the would-be
    developers are made aware ( forcibly through tests) of the basic issues of
    driver writing, the quality is bound to go up. As for Microsoft which is
    doing so much to ensure high quality drivers, giving certification can be
    another step in that direction.

But finally it depends on the quality of the tests conducted and the way
the people will look at these tests.

just my two paise…

Regards,
Vinay.

> does indicate something about the quality of the professional. Would you

want your surgeon to not be board certified? Don’t care if she is or
isn’t? Cripes, I want my tax preparer to have some sort of
certification, why shouldn’t I want the people working on my computer
infrastructure to also be professional?

“NTDEV Reader” is correct.
The boss who employ people have real means to judge their skills, not some paper from somebody. Not so with patient or attorney’s
client (attorneys are to be “board certified” in many countries - legal education is not enough) - thus the third-party
certification authorities.

If you are the person’s client - then you have no trustworthy means of judging his/her skills.
If you are the person’s boss - you have.

If you want to hire the person - the certificate is not so important. But if you want to outsource the work to the people unknown
to you personally - this is other thing, thus ISO9000 certificates.

Only companies are certified in development, not individuals. Their bosses are assumed to have the means to enforce the labor
discipline and to not hire bad professionals.

Max

> 1. Differenciation:

Cetification will help separate the men from the boys.

Wrong. Only the real-world experience can do this separation.
Vice versa in fact. Certification will help “boys” to declare themselves “men” without solid background. :slight_smile:

Build your brand in the organisation. Getting certification will
re-inforce the confidence that your manager has in your abilities.

You must have a company-level certification like ISO9000 to do this.

Then ofcourse there will be a title after your name …‘There comes the A
grade MSDC device driver guy. Make way.’

So what? Very soon all professionals in the area will be certified, thus the certificate will be inflated.

  1. Setting minimum competency requirement for the job:

Yes, this one - yes :slight_smile:

gray areas even for experienced developers

Yes, because “experienced developers” usually do not have much time to learn things not in their current task.

Max

>Wrong. Only the real-world experience can do this separation.

Vice versa in fact. Certification will help “boys” to declare themselves
“men” without solid background. :slight_smile:

No, men do what has to be done to live with dignity…a boy depends on a
man to live breathe, pay tuition and
buy toilet paper. A man can still be unskilled.

You must have a company-level certification like ISO9000 to do this.
ISO9000 is just another piece of paper that much like certification.
Useless, the proof is in the pudding.
Either you are a quality company or you aint and u are lyin about it.

> Then ofcourse there will be a title after your name …‘There comes the
A
> grade MSDC device driver guy. Make way.’

So what? Very soon all professionals in the area will be certified, thus
the certificate will be inflated.

I agree. Soon you will need to scan your dick to take a pee.

> 4. Setting minimum competency requirement for the job:
Yes, this one - yes :slight_smile:
should the minimum competancy requirement for the job should be: Ok I am
going to lock you in this room for 3 hours and you
will write a device driver and some software to show it off. Most
interviews are just an educated guess of your
competency even if there is a test or you show up with certification papers
or degrees.

> gray areas even for experienced developers

Yes, because “experienced developers” usually do not have much time to
learn things not in their current task.

Why question your manhood if you are unexperienced and unskilled. Be a man.
Move out, get that apartement!
Then if you can get skills on your own time good for you! Get certified but
good lord, don’t
pretend that it holds the balance of your personal worth, or the key to
competancy. It is just a piece of paper that
says: I have looked at this information and understand it within the
constraints of the certification class I took.
Nothing can compare to solid list of projects on your resume. That real
world experience reads that I have learned this
and applied it. It implies that you can still do what you have done all
along. (barring some terrible car crash or brain fart)

Asher