Boot-start driver... (2)

NTDEV
1

Hi,

Many thanks to all of you, who responded to my previos question:
“Boot-start driver. How to display string and get keyboard input?”

I am sorry, I haven’t clarified this question enough.

I know about Hal/ZwDisplayString and about reading from the keyboards
(through the \Device\KeyboardClass0 directly or via device enumeration)…
But it works only for drivers, which loaded after the keyboard class driver,
i.e. for System-start drivers.

What can be done for Boot-start driver?

I saw the functionality, which I’d like to implement, in the DriverStudio
few years ago. During the boot of Windows 2000 (very early, on black screen)
a message was displayed (something like “Press xxx key to skip loading
driver xxx”). How to do this?

Thanks once again.

Regards,
Leonid

2

> I know about Hal/ZwDisplayString and about reading from the keyboards

(through the \Device\KeyboardClass0 directly or via device enumeration)…
But it works only for drivers, which loaded after the keyboard class driver,
i.e. for System-start drivers.

Correct.

What can be done for Boot-start driver?

Nothing. Convince your management to cut away this feature from the product.
Any solutions will be unreliable, provided that we have, for instance, lots of
USB keyboards.

This feature is also an ugly one (due to lots of headless servers in the
world), and is a good idea for debugging tools only (where - note this - some
degree of unreliability is acceptable). For any real-work things, use the
helper app to put the value to the registry before reboot, or use 2 different
BOOT.INI entries - one with your driver, another without it.

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

3

What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations with
attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal product.
Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.

“Maxim S. Shatskih” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > I know about Hal/ZwDisplayString and about reading from the keyboards
> > (through the \Device\KeyboardClass0 directly or via device
enumeration)…
> > But it works only for drivers, which loaded after the keyboard class
driver,
> > i.e. for System-start drivers.
>
> Correct.
>
> > What can be done for Boot-start driver?
>
> Nothing. Convince your management to cut away this feature from the
product.
> Any solutions will be unreliable, provided that we have, for instance,
lots of
> USB keyboards.
>
> This feature is also an ugly one (due to lots of headless servers in the
> world), and is a good idea for debugging tools only (where - note this -
some
> degree of unreliability is acceptable). For any real-work things, use the
> helper app to put the value to the registry before reboot, or use 2
different
> BOOT.INI entries - one with your driver, another without it.
>
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
>

4

Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are “only for
workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There is no
way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are requiring is
going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who do not
read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at least
you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.

–
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply

“Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations with
> attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal product.
> Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
>
>
>

5

Of course, I understand all these cautions.
This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of custom
software
solution, which can be installed on workstation only and customers know it.

How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
What seteps should be done for this?

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are “only
for
> workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There is
no
> way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are requiring
is
> going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who do
not
> read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at
least
> you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
> headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
> “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations with
> > attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal product.
> > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

6

Is there a real need in having this driver boot-start?

Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

----- Original Message -----
From: “Leonid Zhigunov”
Newsgroups: ntdev
To: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:20 PM
Subject: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

> Of course, I understand all these cautions.
> This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of custom
> software
> solution, which can be installed on workstation only and customers know it.
>
> How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
> What seteps should be done for this?
>
>
> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are “only
> for
> > workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There is
> no
> > way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are requiring
> is
> > going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who do
> not
> > read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at
> least
> > you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
> > headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
> >
> >
> > –
> > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> > Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> > Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
> >
> >
> > “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations with
> > > attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal product.
> > > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>

7

I think the answer should be obvious. Just access the actual hardware,
directly, natively. I think this is the only possible way, and that might
be why all the guys here are suggesting you let go that idea. And they are
right :slight_smile:
It’s sure a nice experiment, and I think it’s OK for a product like
DriverStudio that’s only used by driver developers who (should) know what
they’re doing or how to get the system back up & running again if that
code crashes the machine or whatever. But for anything else it might be
less than optimal - there should be a better way to get whatever it is you
want to achieve with this.

Maybe you could tell us what it is that you want to achieve or why it must
be a message from a boot-start driver…?

Regards, – Paul

“Leonid Zhigunov”
Gesendet von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
24.11.2004 14:20
Bitte antworten an “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

An: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

Kopie:
Thema: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

Of course, I understand all these cautions.
This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of custom
software
solution, which can be installed on workstation only and customers know
it.

How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
What seteps should be done for this?

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are “only
for
> workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There is
no
> way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are
requiring
is
> going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who do
not
> read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at
least
> you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
> headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
> “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations with
> > attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal
product.
> > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@tab.at
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Please visit us: www.tab.at www.championsnet.net
www.silverball.com

8

I’d try loading the real keyboard stack at boot time before I tried
directly programming the keyboard controller.

The i8042 controller is/was surprisingly poorly behaved - it likes to
lock up for odd reasons. Unless it’s sufficient to test against a
specific motherboard/keyboard pair (and eventaully someone’s going to
replace that keyboard) see what you can do to avoid doing this.

Perhaps newer controllers have fixed the problems we used to see, but I
find it hard to believe that any HW company is really putting much
effort into i8042 compatibility anymore.

-p

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@tab.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:53 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

I think the answer should be obvious. Just access the actual
hardware, directly, natively. I think this is the only
possible way, and that might be why all the guys here are
suggesting you let go that idea. And they are right :slight_smile: It’s
sure a nice experiment, and I think it’s OK for a product
like DriverStudio that’s only used by driver developers who
(should) know what they’re doing or how to get the system
back up & running again if that code crashes the machine or
whatever. But for anything else it might be less than optimal

  • there should be a better way to get whatever it is you want
    to achieve with this.

Maybe you could tell us what it is that you want to achieve
or why it must be a message from a boot-start driver…?

Regards, – Paul

“Leonid Zhigunov” Gesendet von:
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> 24.11.2004 14:20
> Bitte antworten an “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
>
> An: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”
>
> Kopie:
> Thema: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)
>
>
> Of course, I understand all these cautions.
> This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of
> custom software solution, which can be installed on
> workstation only and customers know it.
>
> How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
> What seteps should be done for this?
>
>
> “Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are
> > “only
> for
> > workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous
> results. There
> > is
> no
> > way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are
> requiring
> is
> > going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the
> customers who
> > do
> not
> > read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to
> you well at
> least
> > you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will
> complain to the
> > headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
> >
> >
> > –
> > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> > Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting Remove StopSpam
> > from the email to reply
> >
> >
> > “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> > news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations
> > > with attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not
> a universal
> product.
> > > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@tab.at To
> unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>
> Please visit us: www.tab.at www.championsnet.net
> www.silverball.com
>
>
> —
> Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
> http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256
>
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
> xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com To unsubscribe send a blank
> email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
>

9

Touching the hw itself is somewhat easy with PS2. Not exactly the
easiest thing in the world to control the usb controller (which has at
least 3 variations), usbhub, and run the fixed HID protocol over the
device once you have enumerated the entire topology.

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@tab.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:53 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

I think the answer should be obvious. Just access the actual hardware,
directly, natively. I think this is the only possible way, and that
might
be why all the guys here are suggesting you let go that idea. And they
are
right :slight_smile:
It’s sure a nice experiment, and I think it’s OK for a product like
DriverStudio that’s only used by driver developers who (should) know
what
they’re doing or how to get the system back up & running again if that
code crashes the machine or whatever. But for anything else it might be
less than optimal - there should be a better way to get whatever it is
you
want to achieve with this.

Maybe you could tell us what it is that you want to achieve or why it
must
be a message from a boot-start driver…?

Regards, – Paul

“Leonid Zhigunov”
Gesendet von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
24.11.2004 14:20
Bitte antworten an “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

An: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

Kopie:
Thema: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

Of course, I understand all these cautions.
This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of custom
software
solution, which can be installed on workstation only and customers know
it.

How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
What seteps should be done for this?

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are
“only
for
> workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There
is
no
> way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are
requiring
is
> going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who
do
not
> read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at
least
> you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
> headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
> “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations
with
> > attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal
product.
> > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@tab.at
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Please visit us: www.tab.at www.championsnet.net
www.silverball.com

—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

10

I refer back to my original posting suggesting adding your own parameter to
the boot.ini boot line. By adding an additional entry with additional
parameters, you are presented with a menu at boot time where the user can
select the option to have your driver loaded or not loaded; or anyother
parameters you want to pass to your driver.

Jamey

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Doron Holan
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:11 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE: [ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

Touching the hw itself is somewhat easy with PS2. Not exactly the
easiest thing in the world to control the usb controller (which has at
least 3 variations), usbhub, and run the fixed HID protocol over the
device once you have enumerated the entire topology.

d

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@tab.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:53 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

I think the answer should be obvious. Just access the actual hardware,
directly, natively. I think this is the only possible way, and that
might
be why all the guys here are suggesting you let go that idea. And they
are
right :slight_smile:
It’s sure a nice experiment, and I think it’s OK for a product like
DriverStudio that’s only used by driver developers who (should) know
what
they’re doing or how to get the system back up & running again if that
code crashes the machine or whatever. But for anything else it might be
less than optimal - there should be a better way to get whatever it is
you
want to achieve with this.

Maybe you could tell us what it is that you want to achieve or why it
must
be a message from a boot-start driver…?

Regards, – Paul

“Leonid Zhigunov”
Gesendet von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
24.11.2004 14:20
Bitte antworten an “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

An: “Windows System Software Devs Interest List”

Kopie:
Thema: Re:[ntdev] Boot-start driver… (2)

Of course, I understand all these cautions.
This driver can not be used on servers, cause it is a part of custom
software
solution, which can be installed on workstation only and customers know
it.

How can I read the keyboard input from a boot-start driver?
What seteps should be done for this?

“Don Burn” wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Please be careful on this, I have seen too many products that are
“only
for
> workstations” that end up on servers with disasterous results. There
is
no
> way for you to determine cleanly that the configuration you are
requiring
is
> going to be there. Secondly, you will be amazed at the customers who
do
not
> read the requirements, then complain. If they complain to you well at
least
> you are paying the piper, the ones that are bad will complain to the
> headless server folks, or state that Windows stinks, etc.
>
>
> –
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
> “Leonid Zhigunov” wrote in message
> news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> > What I am trying to develop is designed stictly for workstations
with
> > attached keyboard (single) and display. This is not a universal
product.
> > Some degree of unreliability is accepted as well.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@tab.at
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

Please visit us: www.tab.at www.championsnet.net
www.silverball.com

—
Questions? First check the Kernel Driver FAQ at
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=256

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@windows.microsoft.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com

—
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11

Thank you very much for your ansvers.

Now, I’am aware of possible solutions.
From my point of view the best way is to use boot.in - nothing to do at all
:slight_smile: But customers don’t like this way for some reasons (I asked them).

Probably, the better way is to move the required fuctinonality into a
separate driver, which is loaded at System time. At least in this case I
know what to do and how.

Regards,
Leonid