AW: Re: Building drivers in developer studio????

NTDEV
1

For a while I have had made a driver, and I used the IDE from Visual Studio
for editing the source and compile runs (to find syntax errors and so one).
For the release builds I have used the command line “BUILD” utility. But the
IDE is able to put out a sys file (this is only a DLL, and some settings for
the linker!) which was working. Perhaps I should say that it was only a very
small driver for using some I/O ports on a ISA card.

Reiner

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]Im Auftrag von Maxim S. Shatskih
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2000 22:08
An: NT Developers Interest List
Betreff: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Agree completely.
IDE is OK as a text editor - by why typing “build” in the command line is
more boring than pressing the Shift-F8 in the IDE?
I think that possible problems while using a .DSP for driver can be worse
than typing 6 keys + (also minor) problem of pressing Ctrl-G + entering the
error line number in the IDE.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From: “Thomas “Rick” Tewell”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:06 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
>
> :wink:
>
> Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> Marin County, California
> tel: 415-459-7978 x104
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roddy, Mark
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor settings you get
from
> > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for building drivers in
the
> > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken, driver wizards
> and
> > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings from some point
in
> > time based on some version of the ddk.
> >
> > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> >
> > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a straight build
> version
> > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to be compiler or
> > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a DDK project by
> hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > >
> > >
> > > What risk?
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------
> > > Dave Cox
> > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > adding needless
> > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > compromise is to
> > > build
> > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > Studio, and
> > > invoke
> > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > resources section
> > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > >
> > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jamey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Mark Roddy
> > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > www.hollistech.com
> > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>

—
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@gmx.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

2

> I found it weird when I found out that most of the MS kernel team used

i386kd (not even Windbag!!!).

This explains why i386kd worked, while WinDbg did not :slight_smile:

Max

3

> different if your editor is Visual Studio rather than that heap of garbage

editor that comes with the DDK? If I can work more efficiently inside
visual

No, surely I use MSDEV’s editor.
But I don’t want to move to .DSP from SOURCES. This can introduce some
additional problems - and I have no problems with SOURCES.

Max

4

> preference. Maybe someday in the near future after you install the DDK and

select “New->Project” with VisualStudio there will be DDK-Checked and
DDK-Free options there. When that happens, my comfort level will go up

Maybe somebody will write a wizard for MSDEV to do this?

Max

5

> What I miss is entering programs using the Switch Register on Data General

Novas and DEC PDP-8’s.

In late 80ies I saw the following in one USSR research institute:

  • the machine with 4 hex digits display and 16 keys (0…F) on the keyboard.
    Looks like the machine is a test drive for some embedded software.
  • 8080 CPU (the Soviet clone) inside.
  • the 8080 CPU instruction set is painted on the front panel.
  • debugging was done by emitting the debug print (yes, to the hex digits
    display) and then HLT. The machine can be restarted (continued) from HLT by
    pressing some button.
  • the ~25years old girl (rather handsome and decently dressed) - enters a
    program to this machine.

Max

6

Hi,

I was working on NT Device drivers quite a while ago. I remember there was
some utility in the web(In one of the sites giving info on device driver
development) “SrctoDsp.exe” which would covert a SOURCES file into
corresponding MC VC++ ( 5 or 6) project file. I remember it worked very
well and afterwards my driver project was just like any other User mode
application. I could build, browse, go to definitions etc. It was very
impressive.

Siva

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Reiner
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:32 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] AW: Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

For a while I have had made a driver, and I used the IDE from Visual Studio
for editing the source and compile runs (to find syntax errors and so one).
For the release builds I have used the command line “BUILD” utility. But the
IDE is able to put out a sys file (this is only a DLL, and some settings for
the linker!) which was working. Perhaps I should say that it was only a very
small driver for using some I/O ports on a ISA card.

Reiner

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]Im Auftrag von Maxim S. Shatskih
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2000 22:08
An: NT Developers Interest List
Betreff: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Agree completely.
IDE is OK as a text editor - by why typing “build” in the command line is
more boring than pressing the Shift-F8 in the IDE?
I think that possible problems while using a .DSP for driver can be worse
than typing 6 keys + (also minor) problem of pressing Ctrl-G + entering the
error line number in the IDE.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From: “Thomas “Rick” Tewell”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:06 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
>
> :wink:
>
> Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> Marin County, California
> tel: 415-459-7978 x104
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roddy, Mark
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor settings you get
from
> > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for building drivers in
the
> > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken, driver wizards
> and
> > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings from some point
in
> > time based on some version of the ddk.
> >
> > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> >
> > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a straight build
> version
> > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to be compiler or
> > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a DDK project by
> hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > >
> > >
> > > What risk?
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------
> > > Dave Cox
> > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > adding needless
> > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > compromise is to
> > > build
> > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > Studio, and
> > > invoke
> > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > resources section
> > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > >
> > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jamey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Mark Roddy
> > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > www.hollistech.com
> > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to xxxxx@lists.osr.com
> > >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>

—
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@gmx.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

—
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@teil.soft.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

7

I said that last thursday, and this thread is still going.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sivaselvam C N [mailto:xxxxx@teil.soft.net]
Sent: 03 October 2000 12:02
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] RE: AW: Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Hi,

I was working on NT Device drivers quite a while ago. I
remember there was
some utility in the web(In one of the sites giving info on
device driver
development) “SrctoDsp.exe” which would covert a SOURCES file into
corresponding MC VC++ ( 5 or 6) project file. I remember it
worked very
well and afterwards my driver project was just like any other
User mode
application. I could build, browse, go to definitions etc.
It was very
impressive.

Siva

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Reiner
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:32 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] AW: Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

For a while I have had made a driver, and I used the IDE from
Visual Studio
for editing the source and compile runs (to find syntax
errors and so one).
For the release builds I have used the command line “BUILD”
utility. But the
IDE is able to put out a sys file (this is only a DLL, and
some settings for
the linker!) which was working. Perhaps I should say that it
was only a very
small driver for using some I/O ports on a ISA card.

Reiner

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]Im Auftrag von Maxim
S. Shatskih
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2000 22:08
An: NT Developers Interest List
Betreff: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Agree completely.
IDE is OK as a text editor - by why typing “build” in the
command line is
more boring than pressing the Shift-F8 in the IDE?
I think that possible problems while using a .DSP for driver
can be worse
than typing 6 keys + (also minor) problem of pressing Ctrl-G

  • entering the
    error line number in the IDE.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From: “Thomas “Rick” Tewell”
> To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:06 AM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
> >
> > :wink:
> >
> > Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> > Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> > Marin County, California
> > tel: 415-459-7978 x104
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roddy, Mark
> > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> >
> >
> > > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor
> settings you get
> from
> > > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for
> building drivers in
> the
> > > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken,
> driver wizards
> > and
> > > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings
> from some point
> in
> > > time based on some version of the ddk.
> > >
> > > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> > >
> > > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a
> straight build
> > version
> > > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to
> be compiler or
> > > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a
> DDK project by
> > hand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What risk?
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---------
> > > > Dave Cox
> > > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > > adding needless
> > > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > > compromise is to
> > > > build
> > > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > > Studio, and
> > > > invoke
> > > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > > resources section
> > > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer
> studio???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jamey
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark Roddy
> > > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > > www.hollistech.com
> > > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@gmx.net
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@teil.soft.net
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@des.co.uk
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>

8

Indeed it does, but it does not explain why they didn’t force the Windbag
team to fix it! I can’t understand any sane human being enjoying using
i386kd…

Regards,

Paul Bunn, UltraBac.com, 425-644-6000
Microsoft MVP - WindowsNT/2000
http://www.ultrabac.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:04 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re:Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

I found it weird when I found out that most of the MS kernel team used
i386kd (not even Windbag!!!).

This explains why i386kd worked, while WinDbg did not :slight_smile:

9

Paul,
You must remember these are driver writers and therefore, by
definition, not sane humans. :wink: I would point out that Windows CE builds
drivers as projects under the Visual Studio for embedded applications
(eMbedded Visual C++). As far as I know, there was never a command-line
method for building those drivers, except as exported makefiles.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Paul Bunn
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:26 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re:Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Indeed it does, but it does not explain why they didn’t force the Windbag
team to fix it! I can’t understand any sane human being enjoying using
i386kd…

Regards,

Paul Bunn, UltraBac.com, 425-644-6000
Microsoft MVP - WindowsNT/2000
http://www.ultrabac.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:04 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re:Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> I found it weird when I found out that most of the MS kernel team used
> i386kd (not even Windbag!!!).

This explains why i386kd worked, while WinDbg did not :slight_smile:

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@pdq.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

10

> - the ~25years old girl (rather handsome and decently dressed) - enters a

program to this machine.

Max,

Sounds like a very lonely programmer’s dream…

:wink:

Rick

11

I use this technique too, ie. edit source files (btw. syntax
highlighting is excelent thing to improve code readability)
in the IDE plus compile them to find out errors quickly.
But the driver I use (either checked or free build) is always
built by the BUILD utility from command line.
This technique reduces use of BUILD to minimum
(for still most correct driver binaries) and maximizes
benefits of using IDE (comfort).

Paul

PS: Sources to DSP is good program but with a few disadvantages.
It doesn’t support many of the SOURCES variables.
It does main dirty work for you but the fine tuning is left to
the developer itself.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]On Behalf Of Reiner
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:02 PM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] AW: Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

For a while I have had made a driver, and I used the IDE from Visual
Studio
for editing the source and compile runs (to find syntax errors and so
one).
For the release builds I have used the command line “BUILD” utility. But
the
IDE is able to put out a sys file (this is only a DLL, and some settings
for
the linker!) which was working. Perhaps I should say that it was only a
very
small driver for using some I/O ports on a ISA card.

Reiner

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com]Im Auftrag von Maxim S. Shatskih
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2000 22:08
An: NT Developers Interest List
Betreff: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

Agree completely.
IDE is OK as a text editor - by why typing “build” in the command line
is
more boring than pressing the Shift-F8 in the IDE?
I think that possible problems while using a .DSP for driver can be
worse
than typing 6 keys + (also minor) problem of pressing Ctrl-G + entering
the
error line number in the IDE.

Max

----- Original Message -----
From: “Thomas “Rick” Tewell”
To: “NT Developers Interest List”
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:06 AM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
>
> :wink:
>
> Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> Marin County, California
> tel: 415-459-7978 x104
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roddy, Mark
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor settings you get
from
> > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for building drivers
in
the
> > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken, driver
wizards
> and
> > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings from some
point
in
> > time based on some version of the ddk.
> >
> > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> >
> > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a straight build
> version
> > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to be
compiler or
> > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a DDK project
by
> hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > >
> > >
> > > What risk?
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------
> > > Dave Cox
> > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > adding needless
> > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > compromise is to
> > > build
> > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > Studio, and
> > > invoke
> > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > resources section
> > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > >
> > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jamey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Mark Roddy
> > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > www.hollistech.com
> > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>

—
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@gmx.net
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

—
You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@compelson.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

12

Max,

If you have Walter Oney’s WDM book, you have one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:06 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer
studio???

preference. Maybe someday in the near future after you
install the DDK and
> select “New->Project” with VisualStudio there will be
DDK-Checked and
> DDK-Free options there. When that happens, my comfort
level will go up

Maybe somebody will write a wizard for MSDEV to do this?

Max

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@broadstor.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

13

Now you get back to that “REAL programmers” crap that started this entire
thread. I can write machine code if I HAVE to, but cripes who in the hell is
that compulsive/obsessive to think that is the only way of doing things.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bunn [mailto:xxxxx@ultrabac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:26 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re:Re: Building drivers in developer
studio???

Indeed it does, but it does not explain why they didn’t
force the Windbag
team to fix it! I can’t understand any sane human being
enjoying using
i386kd…

Regards,

Paul Bunn, UltraBac.com, 425-644-6000
Microsoft MVP - WindowsNT/2000
http://www.ultrabac.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:04 AM
To: NT Developers Interest List
Subject: [ntdev] Re:Re: Building drivers in developer
studio???

I found it weird when I found out that most of the MS
kernel team used
> i386kd (not even Windbag!!!).

This explains why i386kd worked, while WinDbg did not :slight_smile:

You are currently subscribed to ntdev as:
xxxxx@broadstor.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

14

Hi Max!

> What I miss is entering programs using the Switch Register on Data
General
> Novas and DEC PDP-8’s.

In late 80ies I saw the following in one USSR research institute:

  • the machine with 4 hex digits display and 16 keys (0…F) on the
    keyboard.
    Looks like the machine is a test drive for some embedded software.
  • 8080 CPU (the Soviet clone) inside.
  • the 8080 CPU instruction set is painted on the front panel.
  • debugging was done by emitting the debug print (yes, to the hex digits
    display) and then HLT. The machine can be restarted (continued) from HLT
    by
    pressing some button.
  • the ~25years old girl (rather handsome and decently dressed) - enters a
    program to this machine.

Max

Last year I have graduated from the radio engineering university (in
Minsk). I want
say that we have exactly that type of the machines until now! :slight_smile: They used
for practical
training during the course of computer architectures as the simple example.
And it is
necessary for every student to make a number of programs for this system.
The
compilation is on the sheet of paper, of course. But after, you occasionally
start to
count in hexadecimal instead of decimal and have a stronger fingers. :slight_smile: BTW,
they
look funny between PII stuff. :slight_smile:

Regards,
Shura

Alexander Kobzhev Philips Research Laboratories Eindhoven
Building: WL 1.3.14 Prof. Holstlaan 4
Phone: +31 40 2745127 5656 AA Eindhoven
Fax: +31 40 2744004 The Netherlands
mailto:xxxxx@philips.com

15

Ahhhh… How fondly I remembered my 6502/ replay card and Nibbles Away ][.
Sorry, I was a copy protection enthusiast. I’m getting misty eyed now. My
earliest professional hardware was a PDP-11 running a telecommunications
application. My first NT driver was for a phone switch for a collections
agency type application.

Does NASA still use the PDP-11’s in the space shuttle? Or did they junk
those bastards?

-------------------------±------------------------------------------------
Regards, | Texas Instruments Standard Linear & Logic
Joe Turner | Wire/Die Bond Group
Voice: 903 868-6182 | 6412 Hwy 75 South, M/S 812
fax: 903 868-6460 | Sherman, TX 75090-0084

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Bunn [mailto:xxxxx@ultrabac.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:12 PM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> And you tell that to kids today, and they don’t believe you!
> [Yorkshiremen sketch, Monty Python]
> My first “debugging” experiences were hitting RESET on a 6502
> microprocessor
> briefly enough so that RAM didn’t get completely hosed, and
> then snooping
> through memory for variable locations as given in the link map.
> Ah, dem were da days!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Bunn, UltraBac.com, 425-644-6000
> Microsoft MVP - WindowsNT/2000
> http://www.ultrabac.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas F. Divine [mailto:xxxxx@pcausa.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 5:23 PM
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> What I miss is entering programs using the Switch Register on
> Data General
> Novas and DEC PDP-8’s.
>
> And yeah! Debugging by looking at the front panel lights.
>
> The Quick & Dirty Assembler & Patch Utility (pad and pencil)
> was somthing
> worth remembering as well.
>
> Boy, those were the good ol’ days.
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: Zeus@ti.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
>

16

Then you should consider using a batch file wrapper like my ddkbuild.bat.
This approach lets you continue to use the standard officially approved ddk
build process and get about 90% of the value out of visual studio without
losing ddk compatibility. See my web site for details.

No, surely I use MSDEV’s editor.
But I don’t want to move to .DSP from SOURCES. This can introduce some
additional problems - and I have no problems with SOURCES.

Mark Roddy
xxxxx@hollistech.com
www.hollistech.com
WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services

17

RE: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???Wow, we’re all coming out of the woodwork on this one…

Yeah, the 1 Mhz 6502, the heart of Telenet’s first commerical packet switch.
Multiple CPU boards, unprotected shared memory and our kick-ass staff-written debugger.

And I thought I was probably one of a very few 50+'ers listening in.

Bob Loewer
Senior Principal Investigator
Sparta, Inc.

18

Sorry to disagree. I find IDE development using srctodsp.exe to convert the
SOURCES is great!

When moving to win2k, there are only a few changes required to the dsp file.
I am finding it tought to see a negative side. BTW: I alw

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas “Rick” Tewell
To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:06 PM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
>
> :wink:
>
> Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> Marin County, California
> tel: 415-459-7978 x104
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roddy, Mark
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor settings you get
from
> > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for building drivers in
the
> > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken, driver wizards
> and
> > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings from some point
in
> > time based on some version of the ddk.
> >
> > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> >
> > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a straight build
> version
> > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to be compiler or
> > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a DDK project by
> hand.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > >
> > >
> > > What risk?
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------
> > > Dave Cox
> > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > adding needless
> > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > compromise is to
> > > build
> > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > Studio, and
> > > invoke
> > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > resources section
> > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > >
> > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jamey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Mark Roddy
> > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > www.hollistech.com
> > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

19
  1. Total integration with the IDE
  2. Browser support
  3. Native compile is fater

I find it difficult to see an argument against full IDE integration for DDK
and IFS builds. Again, please tell me the negatives…

The lines are drawn!

Jamey

----- Original Message -----
From: Maxim S. Shatskih
To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Agree completely.
> IDE is OK as a text editor - by why typing “build” in the command line is
> more boring than pressing the Shift-F8 in the IDE?
> I think that possible problems while using a .DSP for driver can be worse
> than typing 6 keys + (also minor) problem of pressing Ctrl-G + entering
the
> error line number in the IDE.
>
> Max
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: “Thomas “Rick” Tewell”
> To: “NT Developers Interest List”
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:06 AM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use IDEs…
> >
> > :wink:
> >
> > Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> > Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> > Marin County, California
> > tel: 415-459-7978 x104
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roddy, Mark
> > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:52 PM
> > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> >
> >
> > > The risk that whatever compiler/linker/preprocessor settings you get
> from
> > > the visual-studio-only version is not correct for building drivers in
> the
> > > target ddk version for your driver. Unless I am mistaken, driver
wizards
> > and
> > > src2dsp all essentially use snapshots of these settings from some
point
> in
> > > time based on some version of the ddk.
> > >
> > > Now I will agree that the risk is small, but it is there.
> > >
> > > In addition there is no automatic way to go back to a straight build
> > version
> > > of the same driver. So if you do run in to what appear to be compiler
or
> > > linker problems you are SOL and have to go re-create a DDK project by
> > hand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: COX,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:david_cox2@hp.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:36 PM
> > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What risk?
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---------
> > > > Dave Cox
> > > > Hewlett-Packard Co.
> > > > HPSO/SMSO (Santa Barbara)
> > > > https://ecardfile.com/id/Dave+Cox
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Roddy, Mark [mailto:xxxxx@stratus.com]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course there is the other view that not using build is
> > > > adding needless
> > > > > additional risk to your driver development effort. A
> > > > compromise is to
> > > > build
> > > > > driver projects as “External Makefile” projects in Visual
> > > > Studio, and
> > > > invoke
> > > > > build indirectly. For details on how to do this, see the
> > > > resources section
> > > > > of my web site (www.hollistech.com).
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Jamey kirby [mailto:xxxxx@storagecraft.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:49 PM
> > > > > > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > > > > > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > download src2dsp.exe from www.numega.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will convert you SOURCES file to a DSP/DSW file and the
> > > > > > build become 100%
> > > > > > native in the IDE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jamey
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark Roddy
> > > > xxxxx@hollistech.com
> > > > www.hollistech.com
> > > > WindowsNT Windows 2000 Consulting Services
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: david_cox2@hp.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@stratus.com
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > > >
> > >
> > > —
> > > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)

20

I may not have a compnay that develops an OS, but we pump out 20 or 30
drivers a year for NT/2K and I find the IDE far, far more suitable to build
from.

Just my .02

Jamey

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas “Rick” Tewell
To: NT Developers Interest List
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:28 PM
Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???

> Haven’t met anyone working on the kernel at any OS development company yet
> (including Microsoft) that endorses using an IDE as a suitable development
> environment… That may change…but I’m not sure when… This is why the
> DDKs are set up the way they are.
>
> Anyway my comment was intended as just a little “humor” not a raging
debate
> issue…
>
> Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> Marin County, California
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Little
> To: NT Developers Interest List
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:09 PM
> Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer studio???
>
>
> > Bull shit.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas “Rick” Tewell [mailto:rick@1394.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:06 PM
> > To: NT Developers Interest List
> > Subject: [ntdev] Re: Building drivers in developer
> > studio???
> >
> > Just as an aside…REAL kernel level programmers don’t use
> > IDEs…
> >
> > :wink:
> >
> > Thomas “Rick” Tewell
> > Sequoia Advanced Technologies, Inc.
> > Marin County, California
> > tel: 415-459-7978 x104
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: rick@1394.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)
> >
> >
>
>
> —
> You are currently subscribed to ntdev as: xxxxx@storagecraft.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)