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Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

Don_Burn_1Don_Burn_1 Member Posts: 4,311
I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
its use.


Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr

Comments

  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    Hey Don,

    I use it all of the time when I'm on travel or run out of physical
    machines, and I haven't found any issues. All I do is setup the
    debugger with named pipes and it's good to go. I think this is one of
    those answers where it depends on what you're doing though.

    Good luck.
    -- Jim


    -----Original Message-----
    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
    [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
    Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:10 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: [ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    its use.


    Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
    Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
    Website: http://www.windrvr.com
    Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr





    ---
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  • Thomas_Divine-2Thomas_Divine-2 Member Posts: 635
    I tried it in the distant past and IIRC it worked.

    However, it has limitations compared to VMWare for my use. For example,
    Virtual PC supports only one CPU in the guest. USB support is limited.

    I think VPC has some hardware requirements that aren't imposed by VMWare.
    Check the "Requirements" page on the VPC Home Page.

    Try using VPC. It shouldn't take too long to give it a try.

    Good luck,

    Thomas F. Divine
    http://www.pcausa.com

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Don Burn" <xxxxx@acm.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:10 AM
    Newsgroups: ntdev
    To: "Windows System Software Devs Interest List" <xxxxx@lists.osr.com>
    Subject: [ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    > I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    > for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    > but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    > its use.
    >
    >
    > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
    > Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
    > Website: http://www.windrvr.com
    > Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ---
    > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
    >
    > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    > http://www.osr.com/seminars
    >
    > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
    > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • David_R._CattleyDavid_R._Cattley Member - All Emails Posts: 2,112
    I agree with Thomas about VMWare working better. I even think the 'free' VMWare player works better than VPC.



    But none he less, WinDBG/KD with either is the same except or one minor option in connecting WinDBG to a pipe. The documentation for all recent Windbg revs have detailed it completely and it works.



    Good Luck,

    Dave Cattley

    > From: xxxxx@pcausa.com
    > To: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
    > Subject: Re: [ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment
    > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:34:03 -0400
    >
    > I tried it in the distant past and IIRC it worked.
    >
    > However, it has limitations compared to VMWare for my use. For example,
    > Virtual PC supports only one CPU in the guest. USB support is limited.
    >
    > I think VPC has some hardware requirements that aren't imposed by VMWare.
    > Check the "Requirements" page on the VPC Home Page.
    >
    > Try using VPC. It shouldn't take too long to give it a try.
    >
    > Good luck,
    >
    > Thomas F. Divine
    > http://www.pcausa.com
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------
    > From: "Don Burn"
    > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:10 AM
    > Newsgroups: ntdev
    > To: "Windows System Software Devs Interest List"
    > Subject: [ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment
    >
    > > I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    > > for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    > > but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    > > its use.
    > >
    > >
    > > Don Burn (MVP, Windows DKD)
    > > Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting
    > > Website: http://www.windrvr.com
    > > Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ---
    > > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
    > >
    > > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    > > http://www.osr.com/seminars
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
    > > http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
    >
    >
    > ---
    > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
    >
    > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    > http://www.osr.com/seminars
    >
    > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    I've used Virtual PC for kernel debugging in the past, but it only supports
    32-bit clients, which is a show stopper for modern driver work.

    I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients. I
    almost always use two physical machines, because a 1394 connection is just
    radically better. I don't believe I have EVER been patient enough (I waited
    2 days once) to wait for a memory dump over a serial debug connection, even
    a virtual serial one.


    Jan


    > I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    > for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    > but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    > its use.
  • Scott_Noone_(OSR)Scott_Noone_(OSR) Administrator Posts: 3,096
    > I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients. I
    > almost always use two physical machines, because a 1394 connection is just
    > radically better. I don't believe I have EVER been patient enough (I
    > waited
    > 2 days once) to wait for a memory dump over a serial debug connection,
    > even
    > a virtual serial one.

    Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):

    http://virtualkd.sysprogs.org/

    I loathe having to work on a real machine now.

    -scott

    --
    Scott Noone
    Consulting Associate
    OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
    http://www.osronline.com


    "Jan Bottorff" <xxxxx@pmatrix.com> wrote in message
    news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    > I've used Virtual PC for kernel debugging in the past, but it only
    > supports
    > 32-bit clients, which is a show stopper for modern driver work.
    >
    > I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients. I
    > almost always use two physical machines, because a 1394 connection is just
    > radically better. I don't believe I have EVER been patient enough (I
    > waited
    > 2 days once) to wait for a memory dump over a serial debug connection,
    > even
    > a virtual serial one.
    >
    >
    > Jan
    >
    >
    >> I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    >> for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    >> but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    >> its use.
    >
    >
    >

    -scott
    OSR

  • Alex_CarpAlex_Carp Member Posts: 1,016
    I'm using VirtualKD on an x64 win7 machine (both the host and the VM are
    win7 x64) and for some reason it's really slow when the target bugchecks.
    Doing an !analyze -v simply looks like it's waiting for 30 -60 seconds and
    then it does things fairly quickly.. Has anyone else seen that ?

    Thanks,
    Alex.
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    >Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):

    Pretty much.

    mm
  • Scott_Noone_(OSR)Scott_Noone_(OSR) Administrator Posts: 3,096
    I use this config too without much issue. Are you sure it's not just going
    over the network trying to resolve an unqualified symbol? You could try
    removing any external symbol servers from your path (just leave your local
    cache) to see if that makes a difference.

    -scott

    --
    Scott Noone
    Consulting Associate
    OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
    http://www.osronline.com


    "Alex Carp" <xxxxx@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    > I'm using VirtualKD on an x64 win7 machine (both the host and the VM are
    > win7 x64) and for some reason it's really slow when the target bugchecks.
    > Doing an !analyze -v simply looks like it's waiting for 30 -60 seconds and
    > then it does things fairly quickly.. Has anyone else seen that ?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Alex.
    >
    >

    -scott
    OSR

  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    This is the only config I use. I haven't seen it either.

    mm
  • Pavel_APavel_A Member Posts: 2,659
    "Jan Bottorff" <xxxxx@pmatrix.com> wrote in message
    news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    .......
    > I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients.

    Yes it does, but the current version requires that host supports VT (or the
    AMD analog).
    IIRC, their older versions worked even without VT capable host.
    They have a small program that tells whether the host can run x64 guests.

    regards,
    -- pa
  • Alex_CarpAlex_Carp Member Posts: 1,016
    Thanks for the replies.. I wasn't seeing this using the same setup but using the vmware COM port over named pipe thing.. But that was a while ago, maybe i've changed something else as well. I'll take a look.

    Thanks,
    Alex.
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    Sounds really neat, but I don't think this would work for debugging
    kernel drivers for devices that aren't fully virtualized (like PCI,
    1394, and custom USB devices..).

    Greg

    -----Original Message-----
    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Scott Noone
    Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:25 PM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: Re:[ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    > I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients. I
    > almost always use two physical machines, because a 1394 connection is just
    > radically better. I don't believe I have EVER been patient enough (I
    > waited
    > 2 days once) to wait for a memory dump over a serial debug connection,
    > even
    > a virtual serial one.

    Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):

    http://virtualkd.sysprogs.org/

    I loathe having to work on a real machine now.

    -scott

    --
    Scott Noone
    Consulting Associate
    OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
    http://www.osronline.com


    "Jan Bottorff" <xxxxx@pmatrix.com> wrote in message
    news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    > I've used Virtual PC for kernel debugging in the past, but it only
    > supports
    > 32-bit clients, which is a show stopper for modern driver work.
    >
    > I believe VMWare workstation (about $200) does support 64-bit clients. I
    > almost always use two physical machines, because a 1394 connection is just
    > radically better. I don't believe I have EVER been patient enough (I
    > waited
    > 2 days once) to wait for a memory dump over a serial debug connection,
    > even
    > a virtual serial one.
    >
    >
    > Jan
    >
    >
    >> I got a claim from some folks that Microsoft's Virtual PC does not work
    >> for a kernel debugging environment. As far as I can remember it does,
    >> but was wondering if anyone is currently using it, and any comments on
    >> its use.
    >
    >
    >

    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    Indeed it won't (though that's not due to virtualkd proper), but for what you can use it for, it rocks.


    mm
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    Yeah, I wish there was a "passthrough" function for devices unrecognized by the VM managers
    out there, such that a VM could take possession of a device the VM or host OS doesn't know
    about.

    Sigh.

    G

    -----Original Message-----
    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@evitechnology.com
    Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:29 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: RE:[ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    Indeed it won't (though that's not due to virtualkd proper), but for what you can use it for, it rocks.


    mm

    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • Tim_RobertsTim_Roberts Member - All Emails Posts: 12,914
    Gregory Havenga wrote:
    > Sounds really neat, but I don't think this would work for debugging
    > kernel drivers for devices that aren't fully virtualized (like PCI,
    > 1394, and custom USB devices..).
    >

    VMWare and the "Windows XP Mode" thing in Win 7 both fully virtualize
    USB devices.

    I still use bare metal, but I hear the call of the VM in my future.

    --
    Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

    Tim Roberts, [email protected]
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    Hmmm... Didn't work for my USB device last time I tried it (just virtual PC on XP, though).

    I'll have to try that combination, it'd be pretty cool if it works for me.

    G

    -----Original Message-----
    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Tim Roberts
    Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:47 AM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: Re: [ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    Gregory Havenga wrote:
    > Sounds really neat, but I don't think this would work for debugging
    > kernel drivers for devices that aren't fully virtualized (like PCI,
    > 1394, and custom USB devices..).
    >

    VMWare and the "Windows XP Mode" thing in Win 7 both fully virtualize
    USB devices.

    I still use bare metal, but I hear the call of the VM in my future.

    --
    Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
  • Tim_RobertsTim_Roberts Member - All Emails Posts: 12,914
    Gregory Havenga wrote:
    > Hmmm... Didn't work for my USB device last time I tried it (just virtual PC on XP, though).
    >
    > I'll have to try that combination, it'd be pretty cool if it works for me.
    >

    I tried one of my full-bore maximum bandwidth USB 2.0 isochronous web
    cameras, and it worked inside the XP Mode box without a glitch. I was
    actually quite impressed.

    --
    Tim Roberts, xxxxx@probo.com
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

    Tim Roberts, [email protected]
    Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

  • Mark_RoddyMark_Roddy Member - All Emails Posts: 4,305
    I've tried VKD twice now and gotten nowhere.

    The latest effort was with virtualbox, where the basic requirements are to:
    1) download the sources for virtualbox;
    2) download the sources for virtualkd;
    3) rebuild virtualkd with the headers from virtualbox;

    or

    4) pretend that some earlier version of virtualbox is uprev compatible with
    the interface virtualkd is messing with.

    I didn't want a science project, I just wanted to connect a debugger to a
    vm.

    The named pipe interface on virtualpc works fine without building anything.

    Mark Roddy


    On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Scott Noone wrote:

    > Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):
  • OSR_Community_UserOSR_Community_User Member Posts: 110,217
    I've never never tried it with virtualbox.

    I don't imagine that this will help, but I don't recall ever having had a problem using it with vmware workstation (6.5.1 & 6.5.2) to debug a x86_32 target; getting it work with a x86_64 target did involve some work, but the procedure documented on the site did work for me eventually.


    mm
  • Scott_Noone_(OSR)Scott_Noone_(OSR) Administrator Posts: 3,096
    Never tried it on VirtualBox. With VMWare, I just drop vminstall.exe on the
    target, run it, and reboot. The vmmon application on the host senses when
    the VM boots and launches WinDBG with the appropriate settings. It's all
    quite pleasant really.

    The directions you have make the named pipe interface seem just fine though.

    -scott

    --
    Scott Noone
    Consulting Associate
    OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
    http://www.osronline.com


    "Mark Roddy" <xxxxx@hollistech.com> wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    I've tried VKD twice now and gotten nowhere.

    The latest effort was with virtualbox, where the basic requirements are to:
    1) download the sources for virtualbox;
    2) download the sources for virtualkd;
    3) rebuild virtualkd with the headers from virtualbox;

    or

    4) pretend that some earlier version of virtualbox is uprev compatible with
    the interface virtualkd is messing with.

    I didn't want a science project, I just wanted to connect a debugger to a
    vm.

    The named pipe interface on virtualpc works fine without building anything.

    Mark Roddy



    On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Scott Noone <xxxxx@osr.com> wrote:

    Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):

    -scott
    OSR

  • David_R._CattleyDavid_R._Cattley Member - All Emails Posts: 2,112
    I have to echo what Scott is saying. The latest build of VirtualKD with
    VMWare is both painless and convenient. It beats the tar out of the
    pipe/comport performance.

    Dave Cattley

    -----Original Message-----
    From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
    [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Scott Noone
    Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 2:36 PM
    To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
    Subject: Re:[ntdev] Does anyone use Virtual-PC for a debugging environment

    Never tried it on VirtualBox. With VMWare, I just drop vminstall.exe on the
    target, run it, and reboot. The vmmon application on the host senses when
    the VM boots and launches WinDBG with the appropriate settings. It's all
    quite pleasant really.

    The directions you have make the named pipe interface seem just fine though.

    -scott

    --
    Scott Noone
    Consulting Associate
    OSR Open Systems Resources, Inc.
    http://www.osronline.com


    "Mark Roddy" <xxxxx@hollistech.com> wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev...
    I've tried VKD twice now and gotten nowhere.

    The latest effort was with virtualbox, where the basic requirements are to:
    1) download the sources for virtualbox;
    2) download the sources for virtualkd;
    3) rebuild virtualkd with the headers from virtualbox;

    or

    4) pretend that some earlier version of virtualbox is uprev compatible with
    the interface virtualkd is messing with.

    I didn't want a science project, I just wanted to connect a debugger to a
    vm.

    The named pipe interface on virtualpc works fine without building anything.

    Mark Roddy



    On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Scott Noone <xxxxx@osr.com> wrote:

    Use VirtualKD once and you'll never be able to go back (even to 1394):


    ---
    NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

    For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
    http://www.osr.com/seminars

    To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
    http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
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