I recently got an email from someone (with a Microsoft address) called a “Search Wizard” asking me if I wanted to be a support engineer in Las Colinas, Texas. Sensing this could be a huge boon to my career, I replied asking how much the job paid, but the person never wrote back. Is this normal?
At 15:05 26/03/2008, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
I recently got an email from someone (with a Microsoft address)
called a “Search Wizard” asking me if I wanted to be a support
engineer in Las Colinas, Texas. Sensing this could be a huge boon
to my career, I replied asking how much the job paid, but the person
never wrote back. Is this normal?
Don’t know about normal, but at least they showed reasonable
netiquette by not spamming the list as a whole with a job advert 
Mark.
Chris,
This is exactly what happened to me as well. Furthermore, the job offer does not exactly match kernel developer’s profile, so to say - it is more of support with some occasional programming (on job description page they say C skills are *desirable*). I have a feeling that it was sent not by a human but just by some automated wizard, so that quite a few of this list participants must have received it…
Anton Bassov
I’ve gotten solicitations from the list. A few have paid off. As long as you
don’t get stupid and send your SSN in your reply, it should be safe.
–
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little
“Mark S. Edwards” wrote in message
news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> At 15:05 26/03/2008, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
>>I recently got an email from someone (with a Microsoft address) called a
>>“Search Wizard” asking me if I wanted to be a support engineer in Las
>>Colinas, Texas. Sensing this could be a huge boon to my career, I replied
>>asking how much the job paid, but the person never wrote back. Is this
>>normal?
>
>
> Don’t know about normal, but at least they showed reasonable netiquette by
> not spamming the list as a whole with a job advert
>
> Mark.
>
must be some wizard looking for keywords. I got one too. It said Escalation
Engineer or something to that effect.
Ashok Bruno
wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Chris,
>
> This is exactly what happened to me as well. Furthermore, the job offer
> does not exactly match kernel developer’s profile, so to say - it is more
> of support with some occasional programming (on job description page they
> say C skills are desirable). I have a feeling that it was sent not by a
> human but just by some automated wizard, so that quite a few of this list
> participants must have received it…
>
>
> Anton Bassov
>
I got the same.
–
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
xxxxx@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com
wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> I recently got an email from someone (with a Microsoft address) called a
“Search Wizard” asking me if I wanted to be a support engineer in Las Colinas,
Texas. Sensing this could be a huge boon to my career, I replied asking how
much the job paid, but the person never wrote back. Is this normal?
>
wrote in message news:xxxxx@ntdev…
> Chris,
>
> This is exactly what happened to me as well. Furthermore, the job offer
> does not exactly match kernel developer’s profile, so to say - it is more
> of support with some occasional programming (on job description page they
> say C skills are desirable). I have a feeling that it was sent not by a
> human but just by some automated wizard, so that quite a few of this list
> participants must have received it…
Is this another AI experiment? George George’s brother ? 
Anyway, if you get a real proposal that you won’t take, could you forward
it to me, please?
Regards,
–PA
> Anyway, if you get a real proposal that you won’t take, could you forward it to me, please?
Well, we were just offered to browse to “http://members.microsoft.com/careers/search/default.aspx”, search 209923, Escalation Engineer, and apply online…
Anton Bassov
I have asked for this to stop, it may take a little while to wind its way through the appropriate channels. Least I can say is sorry that you guys are getting spammed like this
d
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of xxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:55 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Is it normal to get job solicitations from this group?
Anyway, if you get a real proposal that you won’t take, could you forward it to me, please?
Well, we were just offered to browse to “http://members.microsoft.com/careers/search/default.aspx”, search 209923, Escalation Engineer, and apply online…
Anton Bassov
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
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To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
Doron Holan wrote:
I have asked for this to stop, it may take a little while to
wind its way through the appropriate channels. Least I
can say is sorry that you guys are getting spammed like this
Well do you know why the person never wrote back? From time to time I read the Mini-Msft blog, and I sometimes dream of the glamour of being an “L64 with in-the-money options” (I believe this is the correct terminology).
Note that there IS a (frequently used) forum on OSR Online that posts (full-time, permanent) help wanted ads for driver writers:
http://www.osronline.com/section.cfm?section=31
Thanks Doron. You saved me from posting a rant.
I miss the old mini-msft…
But really, you need to dream higher. If you want to make bank, you want a “Partner-level position” – be sure to negotiate for a window office while you’re at it
P
> I sometimes dream of the glamour of being an “L64 with in-the-money options”
In such case MSFT is the most wrong place for you that one can possibly imagine. If you dream of something like that, you need to start looking for a start-up and not for a corporate giant, because, as Peter pointed out already, you need a partner-level position. Forget about “in-the-money stock options” for quite a while - IIRC, in the US a company’s stock can be publicly traded only if the company had been around for 5 years, and there is a very, very long way for a stock from the “pink sheets” to getting listed on the exchange. Forget about high salary, job security, etc - start-up is unable to provide you any of the above. The only thing it can provide you with is possibility (and a lot of work, of course) MSFT made all that way, and MSFT guys who got really rich joined it in its early days…
In general, it is funny, but there are quite a few people around who believe that if they start working for a giant they will immediately become millionaires via large salary and/or stock options. It does not work this way…
Anton Bassov
Microsoft was actually a very interesting counter example to what you are
saying. ‘Was’ as in its prolonged period of phenomenal growth is probably
over. Guesses regarding the number of Microsoft employees who became
millionaires through stock options generally put that number somewhere in
the 10,000 range.
"From 1986 to 1996, Microsoft’s stock soared more than a hundredfold as the
company’s Windows operating system and Office applications dominated the PC
industry. That explosive climb made millionaires of employees who had
accepted options as a substantial part of their compensation for 60-hour
workweeks fueled by a diet of Twinkies,
Coca-Colahttp:and
marshmallow Peeps. The sudden riches led many to refer to themselves
as
“lottery winners.”
“While the exact number is not known, it is reasonable to assume that there
were approximately 10,000 Microsoft millionaires created by the year 2000,”
said Richard S. Conway Jr., a Seattle economist whom Microsoft hired to
study its impact on Washington State. “The wealth that has come to this area
is staggering.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/29/business/yourmoney/29millionaire.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
It is of course an exception that proves the rule.
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM, wrote:
> > I sometimes dream of the glamour of being an “L64 with in-the-money
> options”
>
> In such case MSFT is the most wrong place for you that one can possibly
> imagine. If you dream of something like that, you need to start looking for
> a start-up and not for a corporate giant, because, as Peter pointed out
> already, you need a partner-level position. Forget about “in-the-money stock
> options” for quite a while - IIRC, in the US a company’s stock can be
> publicly traded only if the company had been around for 5 years, and there
> is a very, very long way for a stock from the “pink sheets” to getting
> listed on the exchange. Forget about high salary, job security, etc -
> start-up is unable to provide you any of the above. The only thing it can
> provide you with is possibility (and a lot of work, of course) MSFT made all
> that way, and MSFT guys who got really rich joined it in its early days…
>
> In general, it is funny, but there are quite a few people around who
> believe that if they start working for a giant they will immediately become
> millionaires via large salary and/or stock options. It does not work this
> way…
>
> Anton Bassov
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
–
Mark Roddy</http:>
Mark,
Microsoft was actually a very interesting counter example to what you are saying.
This is NOt a counter-example…
I started leaning computer stuff in the year 1997, and in the year 1996 I was a broker ( I worked for Raymond James). Therefore, the way I recall it, MSFT (as well as any other technology stock) was considered EXTREMELY risky investment back then. AFAIK, the situation changed only in the year 1999-early 2000, i.e.e literally few months before the market reached its peak and started its strongest downwards trend in history. This is how markets work - by the time an average guy decides that it makes sense to buy some stock it is already about go down. . Therefore, as a former broker I can assure you that all people at MSFT who took stock options even in 1995-1996 can be considered risk-takers. What you are speaking about is the period that started 10 yeras (!!!) earlier. I hope you can imagine how risky the decision to take MSFT stock option was in the year 1986…
as’ as in its prolonged period of phenomenal growth is probably over.
Of course - it is a right time for some new player, whoever it may be. I strongly suspect that the company in question is an unknown start-up right now (or, probably, does not even yet exist). This is what Chris should be looking for if he really has an attitude that he had expressed in his post. (BTW, his post is typical of “not-so-wise” investor - he looks for a stock that has already made its peak)…
Anton Bassov
anton bassov wrote:
This is what Chris should be looking for if he really has an
attitude that he had expressed in his post.
Nope, not really. I’ll take cold, hard cash, thank you very much. It’s too easy to find a job where you’ll be sitting on $1-2m after 10-15 years (just earning salary and bonus) to risk wasting several years hoping your stock options won’t be worthless pieces of paper.
(BTW, his post is typical of “not-so-wise” investor - he looks
for a stock that has already made its peak)…
Buying any individual stock is extremely risky. What if there’s an accounting scandal at MSFT? What if the government breaks them up, etc. Doesn’t matter if they’ve not peaked yet, are peaking now, or have peaked already.
The point is that 10,000 people who were not ‘partner level’ at Microsoft
got quite wealthy just by working there. You are off on some other tangent.
As I said it is an exception. You can pretend that it did not happen, but it
did. Microsoft stock options paid off quite well until the dot com bust of
2000. Since then, not at all. If you started working at Microsoft from 85 -
95 you probably did quite well.
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 9:58 PM, wrote:
> Mark,
>
> > Microsoft was actually a very interesting counter example to what you
> are saying.
>
> This is NOt a counter-example…
>
> I started leaning computer stuff in the year 1997, and in the year 1996 I
> was a broker ( I worked for Raymond James). Therefore, the way I recall it,
> MSFT (as well as any other technology stock) was considered EXTREMELY risky
> investment back then. AFAIK, the situation changed only in the year
> 1999-early 2000, i.e.e literally few months before the market reached its
> peak and started its strongest downwards trend in history. This is how
> markets work - by the time an average guy decides that it makes sense to
> buy some stock it is already about go down. . Therefore, as a former
> broker I can assure you that all people at MSFT who took stock options even
> in 1995-1996 can be considered risk-takers. What you are speaking about is
> the period that started 10 yeras (!!!) earlier. I hope you can imagine how
> risky the decision to take MSFT stock option was in the year 1986…
>
>
> > as’ as in its prolonged period of phenomenal growth is probably over.
>
> Of course - it is a right time for some new player, whoever it may be. I
> strongly suspect that the company in question is an unknown start-up right
> now (or, probably, does not even yet exist). This is what Chris should be
> looking for if he really has an attitude that he had expressed in his post.
> (BTW, his post is typical of “not-so-wise” investor - he looks for a stock
> that has already made its peak)…
>
> Anton Bassov
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
–
Mark Roddy
Mark,
The point is that 10,000 people who were not ‘partner level’ at Microsoft got quite wealthy
just by working there
…
If you started working at Microsoft from 85 - 95 you probably did quite well.
Are you sure MSFT could have had 10K employees back in the year 1985??? In any case, your statement about being “just there” somehow implies that they got wealthy solely via salary, and this is something that I seriously doubt… Certainly, I don’t know it, but it seems to me everyone at MSFT who got wealthy did it via stock options, rather than high salary This is purely the question of economics - unlike stock options, high salary directly results in increase in company’s expenses, and, hence, decrease in profit. Therefore, if they were compensating their employees directly via salary we would not see so phenomenal growth because of increase in expenses…
Anton Bassov
I pointed you at a link that documented this when I brought it up. The facts
here are well established. If you insist on questioning the validity of the
data please take it up with the New York Times.
While msft was a bit notorious for paying salaries at the low end of the
high tech salary scale, even if you were getting compensated at the high
end, that simply does not equate to a huge 1,000,000+ payout from stock
options. Sometimes stock options do work, even for non-partner level
employees, just not very often. In general you are going to be better off
with direct salary compensation, but there are exceptions.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 9:39 PM, wrote:
> Mark,
>
> > The point is that 10,000 people who were not ‘partner level’ at
> Microsoft got quite wealthy
> > just by working there
>
> …
>
> > If you started working at Microsoft from 85 - 95 you probably did quite
> well.
>
>
> Are you sure MSFT could have had 10K employees back in the year 1985???
> In any case, your statement about being “just there” somehow implies that
> they got wealthy solely via salary, and this is something that I seriously
> doubt… Certainly, I don’t know it, but it seems to me everyone at MSFT who
> got wealthy did it via stock options, rather than high salary This is
> purely the question of economics - unlike stock options, high salary
> directly results in increase in company’s expenses, and, hence, decrease in
> profit. Therefore, if they were compensating their employees directly via
> salary we would not see so phenomenal growth because of increase in
> expenses…
>
> Anton Bassov
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
–
Mark Roddy
Hey Anton… Do you have a comment to every thread on the list?
Just curious,
Peter
OSR
I don’t know how we could live without Anton’s opinions about the Life,
the Universe, and Everything all these years
Best regards,
Michal Vodicka
UPEK, Inc.
[xxxxx@upek.com, http://www.upek.com]
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of
xxxxx@osr.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:22 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: RE:[ntdev] Is it normal to get job solicitations
from this group?Hey Anton… Do you have a comment to every thread on the list?
Just curious,
Peter
OSR
NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminarsTo unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online
at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer