Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?

Hi everybody,

We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx.

After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point, please contact me.)

The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be found in the Download Center: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.

When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.

Thanks,

–Diane

I think I once asked Jake Oshins about that doc and he remarked something
to the effect that it was 'neither authoritative nor useful". After that I
stopped using it.

Mark Roddy

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Diane Olsen wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx
> .
>
>
>
> After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve
> determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re
> pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point,
> please contact me.)
>
>
>
> The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor
> Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be
> found in the Download Center:
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.
>
>
>
> When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs
> for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> --Diane
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

On the unrelated note, it would be helpful if MSDN got updated with NDSPI V2.0+ (NetworkDirect Service Provider Interface) documentation, instead of obsolete V1.0. Currently, it only comes as a DOC file from somewhere, and the file doesn’t even fully match the actual header files.

Well let me lay out what it actually is, as that’s dangerously close to FUD.

The TLFS, referenced below, is exactly what is necessary for a non-Windows OS vendor to change their kernel to work well with paravirtualizations that Hyper-V offers, particularly around memory management and spinlocks. It’s also exactly what a non-Windows hypervisor vendor needs to know to enable those same paravirtualizations in Windows.

What it doesn’t do is document any other part of Hyper-V. Many people (like Mark) assumed that it would help them produce some sort of add-on to Hyper-V. We don’t publish an extension platform that would allow third parties to create their own services to VMs.

  • Jake Oshins
    Hyper-V Team

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:42 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?

I think I once asked Jake Oshins about that doc and he remarked something to the effect that it was 'neither authoritative nor useful". After that I stopped using it.

Mark Roddy

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Diane Olsen > wrote:
Hi everybody,

We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx.

After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point, please contact me.)

The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be found in the Download Center: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.

When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.

Thanks,

–Diane


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

If I recall correctly, at the time the topic was timer enlightenments, and
the doc was a bit less than helpful.

Mark Roddy

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Jake Oshins wrote:

> Well let me lay out what it actually is, as that’s dangerously close to
> FUD.
>
>
>
> The TLFS, referenced below, is exactly what is necessary for a non-Windows
> OS vendor to change their kernel to work well with paravirtualizations that
> Hyper-V offers, particularly around memory management and spinlocks. It’s
> also exactly what a non-Windows hypervisor vendor needs to know to enable
> those same paravirtualizations in Windows.
>
>
>
> What it doesn’t do is document any other part of Hyper-V. Many people
> (like Mark) assumed that it would help them produce some sort of add-on to
> Hyper-V. We don’t publish an extension platform that would allow third
> parties to create their own services to VMs.
>
>
>
> - Jake Oshins
>
> Hyper-V Team
>
>
>
> From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:
> xxxxx@lists.osr.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Roddy
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:42 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?
>
>
>
> I think I once asked Jake Oshins about that doc and he remarked something
> to the effect that it was 'neither authoritative nor useful". After that
> I stopped using it.
>
>
> Mark Roddy
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Diane Olsen wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx
> .
>
>
>
> After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve
> determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re
> pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point,
> please contact me.)
>
>
>
> The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor
> Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be
> found in the Download Center:
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.
>
>
>
> When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs
> for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> --Diane
>
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
>
>
> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at:
> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See
> http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
> other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit
> the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>

Oh, I’m sorry for misinterpreting, or misremembering. Timer enlightenments should be reasonably well covered, as that falls directly into the category of paravirtualizing a kernel.

  • Jake

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 12:09 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?

If I recall correctly, at the time the topic was timer enlightenments, and the doc was a bit less than helpful.

Mark Roddy

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Jake Oshins > wrote:
Well let me lay out what it actually is, as that’s dangerously close to FUD.

The TLFS, referenced below, is exactly what is necessary for a non-Windows OS vendor to change their kernel to work well with paravirtualizations that Hyper-V offers, particularly around memory management and spinlocks. It’s also exactly what a non-Windows hypervisor vendor needs to know to enable those same paravirtualizations in Windows.

What it doesn’t do is document any other part of Hyper-V. Many people (like Mark) assumed that it would help them produce some sort of add-on to Hyper-V. We don’t publish an extension platform that would allow third parties to create their own services to VMs.

- Jake Oshins
Hyper-V Team

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.commailto:xxxxx [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.commailto:xxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:42 AM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?

I think I once asked Jake Oshins about that doc and he remarked something to the effect that it was 'neither authoritative nor useful". After that I stopped using it.

Mark Roddy

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Diane Olsen > wrote:
Hi everybody,

We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx.

After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point, please contact me.)

The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be found in the Download Center: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.

When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.

Thanks,

–Diane


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer


NTDEV is sponsored by OSR

Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev

OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers

For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
http://www.osr.com/seminars

To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer

— NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx>

The question should not be what is being decommissioned, but what adequate
documentation exists and where.
joe

Oh, I’m sorry for misinterpreting, or misremembering. Timer
enlightenments should be reasonably well covered, as that falls directly
into the category of paravirtualizing a kernel.

  • Jake

From: xxxxx@lists.osr.com
[mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 12:09 PM
To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?

If I recall correctly, at the time the topic was timer enlightenments, and
the doc was a bit less than helpful.

Mark Roddy

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Jake Oshins
> wrote:
> Well let me lay out what it actually is, as that’s dangerously close to
> FUD.
>
> The TLFS, referenced below, is exactly what is necessary for a non-Windows
> OS vendor to change their kernel to work well with paravirtualizations
> that Hyper-V offers, particularly around memory management and spinlocks.
> It’s also exactly what a non-Windows hypervisor vendor needs to know to
> enable those same paravirtualizations in Windows.
>
> What it doesn’t do is document any other part of Hyper-V. Many people
> (like Mark) assumed that it would help them produce some sort of add-on to
> Hyper-V. We don’t publish an extension platform that would allow third
> parties to create their own services to VMs.
>
> - Jake Oshins
> Hyper-V Team
>
> From:
> xxxxx@lists.osr.commailto:xxxxx
> [mailto:xxxxx@lists.osr.commailto:xxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Mark Roddy
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:42 AM
> To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List
> Subject: Re: [ntdev] Is anyone using the Hypervisor MSDN documentation?
>
> I think I once asked Jake Oshins about that doc and he remarked something
> to the effect that it was 'neither authoritative nor useful". After that I
> stopped using it.
>
> Mark Roddy
>
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Diane Olsen
> > wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> We’re getting ready to retire the WDK/MSDN Hypervisor documentation:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542584(v=vs.85).aspx.
>
> After studying it and consulting with the engineering team, we’ve
> determined that this doc set is neither authoritative nor useful. We’re
> pretty sure no one is even using it. (If we’re wrong on that last point,
> please contact me.)
>
> The only authoritative documentation on this subject is the Hypervisor
> Top-Level Functional Specification 3.0a: Windows Server 2012, which can be
> found in the Download Center:
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=39289.
>
> When we retire the MSDN Hypervisor documentation, we’ll redirect the URLs
> for it so they point to the Hypervisor TLFS in the Download Center.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Diane
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at:
> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See
> http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
> other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit
> the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> — NTDEV is sponsored by OSR Visit the list at:
> http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev OSR is HIRING!! See
> http://www.osr.com/careers For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and
> other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit
> the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer
>
> —
> NTDEV is sponsored by OSR
>
> Visit the list at: http://www.osronline.com/showlists.cfm?list=ntdev
>
> OSR is HIRING!! See http://www.osr.com/careers
>
> For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit:
> http://www.osr.com/seminars
>
> To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at
> http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer</mailto:xxxxx></mailto:xxxxx>